Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-26-2013, 11:04 AM   #136
dyna
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,363
vCash: 1551
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
You are idiot. You stupido. Ever hear of wear and tear from weight lifting? Much worse. It is one of the worst things to do because of repair chemicals it releases, too much leads to negative speed and stamina because the body is filled with harmful fluid. Speed bag and sparring doesn't cause this.
That's why plyometrics should be used instead of weights
dyna is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-26-2013, 11:06 AM   #137
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
George is literally like a tank. You don't muscle George. Too much size, girth, and gorilla strength. It isn't just, like, strong arms, legs, whatever...He's blessed with straight animal strength in every fiber of his body. Carrying 700 pounds of elk on his back and shit like it's nothing.

His defense is also underrated. Shots bounced off him funny. I liken it to a boulder in a river. He gets plenty wet, but it takes millenia to punch a hole in him. It just slides off.

It's frustrating as hell, actually. You fire combinations, you stick, and NOTHING is pressing. Nothing sticks. Nothing feels like it's landing right. It's HARD to stand your ground when your getting hit with shots so stiff as to feel like spears and telephone poles, cant make anything PLANT on the guy, and, to top it off, he's got ox genes or something. Unbelievable. It's just not gonna happen. Only guy to ever outmuscle me 100% in there.

Lennox is a beast too, but it was the combination of things with George. It's not JUST strength, it's the combination of brute power, juggernaught defense, mindless tanklike aggression, and jabs and rights so stiff, strong, and heavy that the can knock you OFF your base.
I always figured it would be very difficult to land on older Foreman clean. Nice to hear confirmation of that, though. That awkward arms out defence just seemed to stymie a lot of shots, or had them glancing off the top of his big chrome dome. Morrison was having a hell of a time landing clean on George. His lefts were just getting sapped before they landed, and George's constant forward pressure was forcing Tommy on the backfoot and unable to get full torque on them as well. Looked like a nightmare to fight if you were a smaller fighter.

I wonder how it would work against a much taller fighter though. I can imagine someone like Vitali being able to land a lot more solidly on George than a little tank like Tua or Tyson ever could due to the angle at which he'd be punching.
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:09 AM   #138
dyna
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,363
vCash: 1551
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
I always figured it would be very difficult to land on older Foreman clean. Nice to hear confirmation of that, though. That awkward arms out defence just seemed to stymie a lot of shots, or had them glancing off the top of his big chrome dome. Morrison was having a hell of a time landing clean on George. His lefts were just getting sapped before they landed, and George's constant forward pressure was forcing Tommy on the backfoot and unable to get full torque on them as well. Looked like a nightmare to fight if you were a smaller fighter.

I wonder how it would work against a much taller fighter though. I can imagine someone like Vitali being able to land a lot more solidly on George than a little tank like Tua or Tyson ever could due to the angle at which he'd be punching.
The cross armed defence used by Foreman (Also Archie Moore) is extremely efficient in stopping hooks and straights but it is a little bit on the weak side against uppercuts.
But Foreman was such a strong man those uppercuts mostly didn't bother him in any significant way.
And some fighters don't throw uppercuts anyway
dyna is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:14 AM   #139
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Rahman's certainly got the build of a man with freakish strength. But he didn't seem to apply it at the highest level as Foreman did. I mean, Holyfield just walked straight in to Rahman. Maybe Rahman's no stronger than Holyfield, (in the ring, who knows about the bench). But then Evander's a beast too.
Having great static strength and having great dynamic strength aren't that related. One's mostly a matter of raw power, the other's a matter of technique, build, power, endurance, bloody mindedness etc.

Rahman no doubt had tons of the former, which contributed to his huge one punch power if he could wind up and land it flush, but lacked in so many other respects that he could not routinely make that power count in a dynamic environment.

Would be interesting to see how high he registered on a punchometer, though, compared to other traditionally huge punchers. I think he'd do rather respectably.
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:17 AM   #140
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna View Post
The cross armed defence used by Foreman (Also Archie Moore) is extremely efficient in stopping hooks and straights but it is a little bit on the weak side against uppercuts.
But Foreman was such a strong man those uppercuts mostly didn't bother him in any significant way.
And some fighters don't throw uppercuts anyway
It wasn't just a regular cross armed defence though, not like, say, the way Norton applied it. Foreman just seemed to stick his arms out there and stop the momentum of the punch dead in its tracks. It wasn't a tight guard like Moore and Norton applied.

I can imagine it being like trying to punch someone through a padded cage.
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:17 AM   #141
highguard
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 866
vCash: 500
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
You are idiot. You stupido. Ever hear of wear and tear from weight lifting? Much worse. It is one of the worst things to do because of repair chemicals it releases, too much leads to negative speed and stamina because the body is filled with harmful fluid. Speed bag and sparring doesn't cause this.
your ****ing retarded,

go to a gym and see what happens there,


like i already too much of anything is harmful
look at ****ing but you will have the brain power
to question that


bottom is
i actually train and from i can see you
clearly you have no idea what that is


**** your stupid,

but here is a study to educate you on weights helping injuries

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
highguard is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:18 AM   #142
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,133
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by highguard View Post
your ****ing retarded,

go to a gym and see what happens there,


like i already too much of anything is harmful
look at ****ing but you will have the brain power
to question that


bottom is
i actually train and from i can see you
clearly you have no idea what that is


**** your stupid,

but here is a study to educate you on weights helping injuries

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Seamus is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:21 AM   #143
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 39,875
vCash: 75
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by highguard View Post
your ****ing retarded,

go to a gym and see what happens there,


like i already too much of anything is harmful
look at ****ing but you will have the brain power
to question that


bottom is
i actually train and from i can see you
clearly you have no idea what that is



**** your stupid,

but here is a study to educate you on weights helping injuries

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:23 AM   #144
highguard
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 866
vCash: 500
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna View Post
That's why plyometrics should be used instead of weights


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


there is a reason, they use weights not plyometrics
for injuries etc
highguard is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:34 AM   #145
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Oh yeah, fighters have always done 'interval' work, or wind sprints, hill running etc. Training hard and for fitness is actually quite straight-forward and athletes figured most of it out decades ago, perhaps millennia ago ! Trial and error, common sense and instinct.

I think in 'the information age' and with everything now a body of science, some people anyone who lived 50 years ago couldn't have had a clue about anything.
People might use words like 'plyometrics' and shit now, doesn't mean the method didn't exist a long time before the word was coined and some geeks wrote a book on it.
I used to be a bit of a modern science and nutrition zealot till I realised that a) most of this stuff's been around for yonks, and b) most modern fighters don't have the discipline or professionalism to actually benefit from it, certainly not in the heavyweight division. While I do still hold to the notion that there have been improvements in certain aspects of training and nutrition, the idea that old school fighters had no idea what they were doing just smacks of ignorance. There are very few other sports where there's such an incentive to get it right, and whilst boxing hasn't been immune to tradition and conservative mindedness, if you're doing something that improves your chances in the ring then it's probably going to catch on in a hurry.
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:37 AM   #146
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,568
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna View Post
Because Evander is a beast
That's what I said.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:44 AM   #147
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,568
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
I used to be a bit of a modern science and nutrition zealot till I realised that a) most of this stuff's been around for yonks, and b) most modern fighters don't have the discipline or professionalism to actually benefit from it, certainly not in the heavyweight division. While I do still hold to the notion that there have been improvements in certain aspects of training and nutrition, the idea that old school fighters had no idea what they were doing just smacks of ignorance. There are very few other sports where there's such an incentive to get it right, and whilst boxing hasn't been immune to tradition and conservative mindedness, if you're doing something that improves your chances in the ring then it's probably going to catch on in a hurry.

Exactly.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 11:58 AM   #148
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by highguard View Post
your ****ing retarded,

go to a gym and see what happens there,


like i already too much of anything is harmful
look at ****ing but you will have the brain power
to question that


bottom is
i actually train and from i can see you
clearly you have no idea what that is


**** your stupid,

but here is a study to educate you on weights helping injuries

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
**** your science you **** stupid, ponce man, look - I train every day non-stop unlike you, with your rest periods and other *****, man, my grip strength is obscene just from speed bag. Sparring rounds off my training nicely, gives excellent cardio and leg endurance. NOTHING ELSE IS NEEDED YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!! Funny thing is, you actually buy that crap you've been reading, sucker.
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 12:20 PM   #149
john garfield
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,914
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
**** your science you **** stupid, ponce man, look - I train every day non-stop unlike you, with your rest periods and other *****, man, my grip strength is obscene just from speed bag. Sparring rounds off my training nicely, gives excellent cardio and leg endurance. NOTHING ELSE IS NEEDED YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!! Funny thing is, you actually buy that crap you've been reading, sucker.
Speaking to few -- 'n some of the best old school trainers -- they confided, they humored fighters letting them do that BS, if it built their confidence. Your simple regime made a lot of ATGs.
john garfield is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2013, 12:23 PM   #150
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,568
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

One old-time trainer told me all you need to develop a world class fighter is that ring over there and the heavy bag.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013