Have you guys read Championship Fighting by Jack Dempsey?

[oskari]

Originally Posted by brown bomber

Which are both absolute no nos

I find the front heavy stance is good for getting an idea of how to leverage bodyweight and how a "stiff" left should feel when it connects well - keeping in mind it's a bad stance for actual fighting of course I'm not opposed to it as a learning tool.

[ROACH]

I agree with putting your weight foward which honestly doesn't make any sense to me, and I think that we might be misinterpreting Dempsey, considering he doesn't do that in his fight film footage, but I don't see the problem with bending at the waist, depending on your style.

He didn't say only bend at the waist. That's what Mike Jones does, and again, he is garbage.

[Johnstown]

Originally Posted by brown bomber

Absolutely not the stance used by Marquez - tell me what the similarities are!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SlZkA8LB3b...25289%2529.jpghttp://tjwingchun.co.uk/extinfo/dempsey/jd87.gif


Ok, yes this one is Pac...


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

minus throwing the punch

http://tjwingchun.co.uk/extinfo/dempsey/jd76.gif


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Johnstown]

http://tjwingchun.co.uk/extinfo/dempsey/jd18.gif

[Johnstown]

Originally Posted by brown bomber

Which are both absolute no nos

guys have made the waist bending well....see frazier.

[brown bomber]

Yep but it's not optimal - Frazier would have being more effective rolling properly - he was good in spite of his rolling technique. That's not to say anyone could do it better - just it was not optimal.

Your dealing with imperfection all the time your job should be to be as perfect as possible- without removing your creativity and reflexes

[ROACH]

Originally Posted by brown bomber

Yep but it's not optimal - Frazier would have being more effective rolling properly - he was good in spite of his rolling technique. That's not to say anyone could do it better - just it was not optimal.

Your dealing with imperfection all the time your job should be to be as perfect as possible- without removing your creativity and reflexes

But if you watch Dempsey on film, he is clearly good at rolling under punches. There is even a technique based off his approach, called the Dempsey Roll, although to be honest, the first time ever heard it call that was on the internet.

Regardless, Dempsey was a phenomenal rolling expert, and like you, I understand the importance of ballance, and I think it's possible that Dempsey either forgot some of what he knew, or he couldn't quite put into words what he meant.

You got to remember, it was a long time since he was champion, and I'm sure there were many times in your career for instance where your body felt a certain way when you were shadowboxing, and you started to utilize that technique against opponents effectively, but you didn't write it down because it felt so natural.

You know how it is, you do something frequently, and your passionate about it, you learn things at the time that just flow, when otherwise after some time off, you just can't put it all together.

Or like I said, maybe he just didn't express himself in a way where we could truly understand what he meant.

Then there is also, perhaps both you and I really don't know shit about boxing or he was trying to trick people into not being able to box for some unknown predjudism or sadistic enjoyment.

Anyway...you can be the judge of that, I'll have to go over it again. I will say that I am impressed when I see Dempsey operate in motion.

[brown bomber]

Dempsey was phenomenal - what were talking about is the best way to do things and I can think of more reasons why you should roll with your back straight then why you shouldn't - and that's it!

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by ROACH

But if you watch Dempsey on film, he is clearly good at rolling under punches. There is even a technique based off his approach, called the Dempsey Roll, although to be honest, the first time ever heard it call that was on the internet.

Regardless, Dempsey was a phenomenal rolling expert, and like you, I understand the importance of ballance, and I think it's possible that Dempsey either forgot some of what he knew, or he couldn't quite put into words what he meant.

You got to remember, it was a long time since he was champion, and I'm sure there were many times in your career for instance where your body felt a certain way when you were shadowboxing, and you started to utilize that technique against opponents effectively, but you didn't write it down because it felt so natural.

You know how it is, you do something frequently, and your passionate about it, you learn things at the time that just flow, when otherwise after some time off, you just can't put it all together.

Or like I said, maybe he just didn't express himself in a way where we could truly understand what he meant.

Then there is also, perhaps both you and I really don't know shit about boxing or he was trying to trick people into not being able to box for some unknown predjudism or sadistic enjoyment.

Anyway...you can be the judge of that, I'll have to go over it again. I will say that I am impressed when I see Dempsey operate in motion.

Nobody really taught Dempsey how to be Dempsey, he did things that worked for him, sure there are always better ways to do things.
Nobody throughout history was perfect in everyway. Even the greatest ever Sugar Ray Robinson, it could be said he could have done this or that better. Like the saying goes nobody is perfect.

[brown bomber]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

Nobody really taught Dempsey how to be Dempsey, he did things that worked for him, sure there are always better ways to do things.
Nobody throughout history was perfect in everyway. Even the greatest ever Sugar Ray Robinson, it could be said he could have done this or that better. Like the saying goes nobody is perfect.

Agree but you must strive for it- that's my point

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by Johnstown

http://tjwingchun.co.uk/extinfo/dempsey/jd18.gif

OMG have you done your homework, a tip of the hat to you. Check out the internet archive, search boxing, Dempsey's book is on there. Also there are others. If you like Dempsey's book, check this one out, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Here is a short bio on O'brien he weighed between 152-165pds and fought everybody ck out the who's who of the time that he fought. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Hope you find it interesting, enjoy.

[Johnstown]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

OMG have you done your homework, a tip of the hat to you. Check out the internet archive, search boxing, Dempsey's book is on there. Also there are others. If you like Dempsey's book, check this one out, [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Here is a short bio on O'brien he weighed between 152-165pds and fought everybody ck out the who's who of the time that he fought. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Hope you find it interesting, enjoy.

I just read the obrien part about fighting southpaws..good advice..although i dont agree with the idea that being a southpaw is bad....the argument that you cant land your left is foolish..because that argument should hold than for a conventional fighters right against a south paw as well. The main reason i think south paws have had trouble through the years is most trainers just did not know how to train them.

[MagnificentMatt]

I don't see why it is an argument of how to move your head..

Bending at the waist may make it a little easier to evade alone, but you can't block as well by doing so, can't counter as well, and you put yourself off balance.

Using your legs to move your head you can keep your hands up, be in position to counter, and be able to use your EYES more to see openings...you also stay on balance, which contributes to all three of these things.

[Ricky42791]

The best things I took I way from that book, is getting your whole body weight behind a punch and using the torque to make your shots explosive

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by Johnstown

I just read the obrien part about fighting southpaws..good advice..although i dont agree with the idea that being a southpaw is bad....the argument that you cant land your left is foolish..because that argument should hold than for a conventional fighters right against a south paw as well. The main reason i think south paws have had trouble through the years is most trainers just did not know how to train them.

Remember in those days they tried to get left handers to convert for business reasons cos nobody wanted to fight a southpaw if they didnt have to and trainers thinking was I ain't gonna make money with no southpaw. Even the great Benny Leonard had trouble with a southpaw, Lew Tendler.
You are right about landing a left on a southpaw. Just like a conventional fighter is open for a 1-2, so are southpaws vulnerable to a 2-1. Frietas used that tactic to beat Casamayor. I was involved with Juan "BabyBull" Diaz, and he never faced a southpaw and in fact avoided them like the plauge.