Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-27-2013, 10:29 AM   #1
ero-sennin
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 2,602
vCash: 1000
Default "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyles."

Whatever you think of PK, sometimes he talks a lot of sense. PK made a post on this in Donnie's thread on deluded boxers. I wanted to make this thread to discuss the shitty decisions boxers make, the backwards ass things they do in training. This thread may come across as "lookey here, we have some punk thinking he knows better than the pros", but it's just an opinion. The pros, and the trainers who post on ESB are welcome to join in and give their opinions. Some retarded things I've seen in boxing.


1. Amir Khan said that he did not train all year round. He trained only during training camps. For a professional to do this? It was beyond retarded. IMO, training camps should be used to peak your conditioning, work on a gameplan, and simulate the actual fight through sparring. It is very physically demanding stuff, and yes boxers do need a break, but not training at all away from camp? It's a joke because when not in training camp, a boxer should be working on technical things. Footwork, perfecting each punch, sharperning your reflexes etc. Mike Tyson would stand in front of a mirror and just throw the same punch over and over, for hours. This type of training is not physically demanding. There is no excuse to avoid it. Don Bradman became the greatest batsmen in the history of cricket because he used to bounce a golf ball off a wall and try to hit it with a stump. He did this over and over. It's not physically demanding. Do some boxers not realise this? Are they so retarded that they believe training is all or nothing? Balls to the wall type stuff? Bradman trained his eye to greatness this way. This is the type of technical training I'm talking about. Training is the wrong word. It should be called practice. You can practice all year round, away from training camp.


2. Paul William's trainer said that 90% of the training Paul Williams did was conditioning. "Once you know how to throw a jab, you never forget". He thought it was like riding a bike. Once you know how to ride a bike you never forget, so you don't have to practice. Paul Williams was one of my favorite fighters, very entertaining, but he never learned how to use his height and reach. He was never going to learn anything new, because his trainer felt that physical training is all it took. Shocking. It's like Messi saying "I don't have to practice my dribbling or my shooting, because once you learn you never forget. I'm just going to spend my time in the gym and work on my conditioning". It's like Michael Jordan and Roger Federer deciding to spend 90% of their time in the gym and only 10% on the basketball court/tennis court.


3. Trainers telling their fighters to stay away from weights. I have come across coaches like this when I trained. I ignored the advice and never let the coach know I trained with weights. One guy was told to stop going to the gym because big muscles will slow him down. These coaches don't realise that to grow muscles you need to train in a certain way, and have the right diet. There's a massive difference between bodybuilding and strength training. When a guy is able to keep making gains in strength without putting on an ounce of muscle, how is that a bad thing? You are training the nervous system, not making your muscles grow. If power is strength X Speed, then how is training for strength a bad thing?


4. Vic Darchiniyan was supposedly doing 1000 push ups a day when training for a fight. This is very retarded, because what will it do? It will not give him any strength because to train strength you would need to do low reps and heavy resistance. The only thing it would do is improve muscular endurance. For a boxer, muscular endurance is required mainly in the legs (which is why skipping is such a badass exercise) and the shoulders to keep your arms up. Working out on the speed ball will be more effective for building endurance in the shoulders and at the same time train hand-eye co-ordination and timing. All that time he spent doing push ups would be better utilised on the speed bag. Although to be fair to Darchiniyan, he can also supposedly bench twice his bodyweight so's he's also strong as an Ox.

5. Ricky Hatton's lifestyle away from training camp. Like I said, to me a training camp should be used to peak your physical conditioning, work on your gameplan and simulate the fight. It should not be a fat camp where you spend the first few weeks trying to lose weight.


6. Amir Khan on 24/7 getting into a war in sparring. Roach was away from the wildcard and Khan was sparring some guy in preparation for Garcia. He was sparring like he was Nigel Benn. Like it was some brutal war he was going to get into. When he was told to box, he said it was boring. Beyond retarded. Hard to believe a professional would do something like that.

7. This last one I'm not sure about. Some trainers feel that your hands should be wrapped even when hitting the bag. You only have one pair of hands so protect them well, because they are your weapons in boxing, is their thinking. Then you have this opposite view.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

He says you should hit the bags with gardening gloves to "condition" the hands, and that the reason fighters break their hands during fights is because they protect them too much in training. I don't know man. I don't know if he's correct, or if it's a stupid, backwards thing to do. What do the pros and trainers on here think?



Quote:
Boxing is probably the only sport that gets more retarded, when you turn professional. Its probably the only sport that is actually more unprofessional at professional level, than amateur level.


Quote:
About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyles. And have the inability to live and train like athletes all year round.

Its as if it is in their genetic make up to be retards.

Their ether not training or overstraining.
ero-sennin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-27-2013, 10:40 AM   #2
Jack
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: England
Posts: 11,319
vCash: 15000
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

Khan, Williams, Hatton, Darchinyan and other who make the same 'mistakes' have all been incredibly successful fighters. All of them, bar Khan I think, were in the top 10 fighters in the world at one point, so whilst I agree with some of the things you've said, I think their success proves that you don't always need to do things by the book. Maybe they could have been better if they'd done things differently but I don't think it's a complete certainty.

Is it wrong that Hatton bloated up in between fights? Yeah, it is, but even though that lifestyle was unhealthy, he'd have been an inferior fighter if he had never allowed that to happen. That was his lifestyle and something he loved doing, which is where all his enthusiasm and effort came from. Force him to stay in good condition all year round, keep him away from pubs and stuff, and he wouldn't have mentally been the same person, so he wouldn't physically have been the same fighter. You've got to enjoy yourself to be successful in anything you do. Training all year might work for someone like Hopkins but I don't think it's how everyone should be.

Just on Khan. The tactics he used in his training camps are the same that Pacquiao, the best fighter in the modern era, has also used. It's something devised by Ariza, who is a top conditioning coach in world sport, never mind just boxing. His opinion on conditioning is worth far, far more than Hunter's is.
Jack is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 10:41 AM   #3
Matt Ldn
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NSW via Leeds/London
Posts: 1,940
vCash: 1885
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

Trainers in general are incredibly backward. The number of young amateurs who are eating terribly is ridiculous. Frankie gavin for example just eating beans on toast etc. You hear some terrible advice in gyms.
Matt Ldn is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 11:12 AM   #4
ero-sennin
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 2,602
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Is it wrong that Hatton bloated up in between fights? Yeah, it is, but even though that lifestyle was unhealthy, he'd have been an inferior fighter if he had never allowed that to happen. That was his lifestyle and something he loved doing, which is where all his enthusiasm and effort came from. Force him to stay in good condition all year round, keep him away from pubs and stuff, and he wouldn't have mentally been the same person, so he wouldn't physically have been the same fighter. You've got to enjoy yourself to be successful in anything you do. Training all year might work for someone like Hopkins but I don't think it's how everyone should be.
I actually agree with this somewhat, but he took it too far and just let himself go totally. Williams was very successful but this was despite his training methods rather than because of them IMO.


Quote:
Just on Khan. The tactics he used in his training camps are the same that Pacquiao, the best fighter in the modern era, has also used. It's something devised by Ariza, who is a top conditioning coach in world sport, never mind just boxing. His opinion on conditioning is worth far, far more than Hunter's is.
I'm talking about the technical stuff as opposed to the strength and conditioning drills that Ariza made him do. The training camp for the Garcia fight seemed like a joke, and to be fair to Khan, it was not totally down to him either. I found it strange that a professional fighter at world level would use the wrong tactics in sparring because he thought boxing was "boring". Maybe that little performance was for the cameras, I don't know.

As for the conditioning drills, Hunter's view is that everything you do in training has to be related to boxing. Not saying he's right or wrong, but it's something worth thinking about. If you can get get the same physical benefits by doing something boxing related, and at the same time improve technically...
ero-sennin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 11:19 AM   #5
ero-sennin
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 2,602
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Ldn View Post
Trainers in general are incredibly backward. The number of young amateurs who are eating terribly is ridiculous. Frankie gavin for example just eating beans on toast etc. You hear some terrible advice in gyms.
While this is true, sometimes you get the opposite extreme. I talked about nutrition in that thread where Nipple felt that a professional fighter should not be eating at Nandos.

David Haye is someone who doesn't seem restricted by the old ways. Didn't do long runs, and got up late, as opposed to setting the alarm for 4am like a lot of boxers do. People can point to his conditioning and say it was a mistake for him not to go on long runs but I think his conditioning is a result of genetics, and not the wrong type of training. I think it was Jim Watt who once said that David Haye is just not built for stamina. Even if he trains for it, he's unlikely to be that type of guy. And I'm not saying that modern training methods are superior to the old methods either. I'm just saying that in boxing there is still this stubbornness, and certain exercises and drills are done just because it's always been done that way.
ero-sennin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 11:51 AM   #6
c woodhouse
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 580
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

great thread, one of the best ive read
c woodhouse is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 01:04 PM   #7
Wenpire
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 152
vCash: 75
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

I agree with pretty much everything said here, except for the one with weights. For me personally weight lifting makes me feel more heavy and slower. I think its better to just spend that time hitting the heavy bag, mitts, and sparring than weight lifting. Mike Tyson didn't really lift any weights in his prime, but after he went to prison he started to lift weights, and continued lifting weights after he came out. And he was never the same fighter again, but hey he didn't train very hard either after he came out of prison so....... I don't know man.
Wenpire is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 01:08 PM   #8
ero-sennin
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 2,602
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wenpire View Post
I agree with pretty much everything said here, except for the one with weights. For me personally weight lifting makes me feel more heavy and slower. I think its better to just spend that time hitting the heavy bag, mitts, and sparring than weight lifting. Mike Tyson didn't really lift any weights in his prime, but after he went to prison he started to lift weights, and continued lifting weights after he came out. And he was never the same fighter again, but hey he didn't train very hard either after he came out of prison so....... I don't know man.

One of Mike's best quotes that. "I don't know man...yeah, yeah, Lennox Lewis, I'm comin' for you"

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
ero-sennin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 01:39 PM   #9
Wenpire
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 152
vCash: 75
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

Quote:
Originally Posted by ero-sennin View Post
One of Mike's best quotes that. "I don't know man...yeah, yeah, Lennox Lewis, I'm comin' for you"

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
lol hell yea.
Wenpire is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 02:08 PM   #10
I Shot JR
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,567
vCash: 500
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

I think the issue of fighters only fighting two or three times a year contributes to the lack of professionalism. Some can cope with the lay offs, the majority cannot. It is shocking in this day and age that guys at British level are still not eating right- boxing is their job after all.
I Shot JR is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 02:25 PM   #11
Primadonna Kool
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 9,790
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

"Sometimes its not even about work ethic, its just about being a retard. I know plenty of boxer who train 7 days aweek but guess what..? They still believe in myths that you cannot eat after 8pm, you must avoid all carbs and fats. And you try and speak sense to them and it just literally goes straight through them. There's allot of boxers over-training that don't understand anything about training and recovery, and what the body needs to repair/recovery and be healthy on a meticulous level".

David Haye/Adam Booth where very smart, what they did is just totally ignore people within boxing and from a very early point in Haye's career had him taking advice from advisor's from other more evolved/educated sports like athletics.

Its ingrained in the sport of boxing to be backwards, i have only witnessed and experienced things at amateur level, but it seems like it is ingrained within its culture. I know one amateur boxer who walks around at about 85kg, while training weekly and just eating normally.

He plans on going back down to 68kg, because he was beaten at 80kg...? Who cares if he was beaten, he is still in his teenage years and developing..? well i doubt he will develop any further if he keeps restricting his body of nutrients.

Who are these people advising these young kids, up and down the country..? its negligence on the highest level.

The best was when Tony Bellew stated that he has been training so hard on a empty stomach, that he was throwing up yellow stuff.

Note: In the amateur ranks work ethic is install more into fighters. In that sense it is more professional than professional boxing, because you have a schedule and obligation to attend training sessions. Eduction is pretty much lacking at this level though, but i can imagine the advisor's, sports scientists, to all be pretty educating and helping if you are lucky enough to make a GB team, and live and train with the squad.........."I am just speculating but i hope it is".

Note: Its a ****ing shame, because Ricky Hatton in my opinion could of won his comeback fight if he had afew months more time preparing his body. Ricky Hatton was damaged goods after years of abusing his body with drink/drugs, the body is designed to repair and regenerating but it will need more than afew months on a crash diet and training like a complete retard! What a shame.

Note: I mean no disrespect to the game and the people within it. I have just been annoyed and frustrated with the ingrained ignorance and lack of common sense and bad advice. But i suppose this happens in all sports, but it seems to happen allot more in boxing! this constant pressure to make weight or force your body to make unnatural weights does long term damage in my opinion and shortens careers, and prematurely ages people.

Last edited by Primadonna Kool; 01-27-2013 at 02:38 PM.
Primadonna Kool is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 02:32 PM   #12
StWerburghs
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 502
vCash: 1673
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

Quote:
Originally Posted by ero-sennin View Post
One of Mike's best quotes that. "I don't know man...yeah, yeah, Lennox Lewis, I'm comin' for you"

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Thats wierd...I found out only yesterday that the guy who shot 50 cent was Daryl Baum, Tysons best friend (after reading some article)...and I now realise that he was the guy Tyson dedicates this fight to.

Small world!!!
StWerburghs is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 02:52 PM   #13
Taylor2010
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 668
vCash: 100
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

6. Amir Khan on 24/7 getting into a war in sparring. Roach was away from the wildcard and Khan was sparring some guy in preparation for Garcia. He was sparring like he was Nigel Benn. Like it was some brutal war he was going to get into. When he was told to box, he said it was boring. Beyond retarded. Hard to believe a professional would do something like that.

Really good read thanks for posting. I have highlighted the above as it is something that shocked me when I saw it. Looked like he was sparring a MW a couple weeks out from the Garcia fight, and he was getting hit with some big shots. Also, im sure after he left Roach, Khan said that he had never had a coach work on his defense before.
Taylor2010 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 02:55 PM   #14
atberry
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

The issue with training the central nervous system (weights) is that you need to use weights in excess of 85% 1RM to do so - making the risk of injury highly likely, and the last thing a boxer needs is to be injured and not able to hit the pads, bags and spar.
atberry is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2013, 02:57 PM   #15
ero-sennin
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 2,602
vCash: 1000
Default Re: "About 90% of boxers in this country in my opinion, lead unprofessional lifestyle

I'm glad you brought up the weight making thing. You have some fighters who are hardly eating anything because they need to make weight, and yet they are doing this when they need that energy the most because they are in hard training It goes against everything that we are taught about nutrition. Saying that, there is a theory that eating very little during the day actually gives you more energy. It's called the warrior diet

"3. Exercise While Undereating
It has been established that we are inherently carrying survival mechanisms that benefit us when triggered by physical or nutritional stress such as exercise or undereating. Combining exercise with undereating will amplify the beneficial mechanisms of both increasing our ability to utilize energy, improve strength and resist fatigue."


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

but honestly I'm not sure what to make of it. It might be fine for the average fatty who is trying to lose weight and get lean, but how can having a massive calorie restriction be beneficial for a professional athlete in hard training?


I mean, somebody like Froch is doing it right because he fights at around the same weight he walks around at so doesn't have to boil down. Look at Brandon Rios at lightweight. How a big guy like him managed to boil down to 135, I don't know. It obviously took a lot out of him and he looked like a corpse during weigh ins. If a fighter is carrying a lot of fat then it's different. He has to lose the fat, but beyond this it's unhealthy I think. For a teenager to do this when he still hasn't stopped growing? Shieeeeet.



Padwork is an area where the old shit was better than the new shit. Watch this interview with Manny Steward where he talks about that pitter patter style padwork you see these days and how boxers don't learn to punch through the target because of this. He felt that this is why you don't see many big punchers these days.


[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

note: I still don't know how to embed YT videos and keep getting the white square
ero-sennin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013