What if the Soviets had always been allowed to fight in the pro ranks?

[Ncc84]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

Show where I ever said boxers were old at 30. As usual you won't because you can't. Its a fact, and I provided links, that people start to physically decline in there early 30's and that is the reason the average pro athlete is retired by 33, another fact I provided links for.

Son you're an imbecile. You said if eastern Europeans could have competed back than they would have dominated. I proved otherwise and you can't accept the reality of it. You will never out debate me because you no shit about this sport and you can't back up your lame points. And whether boxing was legal or illegal in the USSR at that time is irrelevant to this discussion. I've proved my point, you're just trying to twist the parameters like you always do when you can't counter the facts.

Lol, still my bitch!!

You haven't proved eastern europeans wouldn't have been successful had they competed professionally earlier. In fact you have provided evidence on the contrary. Mentioning Kobozev actually went against what you were trying to say. He was good as an amateur but there were many better Eastern Bloc amateurs at the time. He was never a national champion, although wikipedia says he was part of the soviet national team, he didn't represent the USSR at any major tournaments.
Kobozev was a good pro, there were many better than him in the amateurs, so I don't know why you don't think any of them could have been good professionals or gone on to win world titles if they went pro.

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by Ncc84

You haven't proved eastern europeans wouldn't have been successful had they competed professionally earlier. In fact you have provided evidence on the contrary. Mentioning Kobozev actually went against what you were trying to say. He was good as an amateur but there were many better Eastern Bloc amateurs at the time. He was never a national champion, although wikipedia says he was part of the soviet national team, he didn't represent the USSR at any major tournaments.
Kobozev was a good pro, there were many better than him in the amateurs, so I don't know why you don't think any of them could have been good professionals or gone on to win world titles if they went pro.

Amateur success doesn't always transfer to professional success. So your argument means very little. There's no way to say who would or wouldn't have been successful. And please point out where I ever said eastern Europeans wouldn't have been successful or have won world titles, of course they would have. My argument was against the ridiculous notion that Americans would have been in the same boat as today if they had competed. Sorry but they did compete, and America had a much higher talent level back then.

[Ncc84]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

Amateur success doesn't always transfer to professional success. So your argument means very little. There's no way to say who would or wouldn't have been successful. And please point out where I ever said eastern Europeans wouldn't have been successful or have won world titles, of course they would have. My argument was against the ridiculous notion that Americans would have been in the same boat as today if they had competed. Sorry but they did compete, and America had a much higher talent level back then.

I don't agree america had a much higher talent level back then, I think it appears that way because there wasn't as much competition for them to be compared to.
America looks better in the 80s because the majority of the top tens were americans. But that is only because most of the best boxing nations were not competing.

Amateur success doesn't always transfer to pro success, you're right, but it is still relevant. It is unusual for a very good pro to not have been a good amateur unless they went pro very early.
If all the successful EE ams were going pro in the 80s the top tens woul look very much as they do now.

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by Ncc84

I don't agree america had a much higher talent level back then, I think it appears that way because there wasn't as much competition for them to be compared to.
America looks better in the 80s because the majority of the top tens were americans. But that is only because most of the best boxing nations were not competing.

Amateur success doesn't always transfer to pro success, you're right, but it is still relevant. It is unusual for a very good pro to not have been a good amateur unless they went pro very early.
If all the successful EE ams were going pro in the 80s the top tens woul look very much as they do now.

Come on man, are you serious? All you have to do is look a film of pat fighters to see they actually employed body punching, had better stamina and were better combination punchers. If the eastern Europeans had fought in the 80's and 90's I'm sure the top 10's would look different, but they certainly wouldn't look like today where Americas talent has severely dwindled at heavyweight.

[Ncc84]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

Come on man, are you serious? All you have to do is look a film of pat fighters to see they actually employed body punching, had better stamina and were better combination punchers. If the eastern Europeans had fought in the 80's and 90's I'm sure the top 10's would look different, but they certainly wouldn't look like today where Americas talent has severely dwindled at heavyweight.

There isn't a top fighter from america like a holmes or tyson, but other than those 2 the talent was no better than today.
There was a time when David Bey was rated as the 4th best american heavyweight.
Watch fighters like Banks and Jennings their skill level is quite exceptional.

Do you think it is just a coincidence that the eastern europeans entering the pros and america's perceived talent level dropping happened at the same time?

[BadDog]

Originally Posted by Kevin Willis

Was Sergei Kobozov one of the original five? I seem to recall Sergei Artyemiev(sp) being another. At the risk of jabs calling me a bunch of names, I am to lazy to look it up.

A lot of good it did Kobozov anyways, being killed by the Russian(Jewish) Mob.

I suppose Jabs is going to want multiple links and several notorized documents verifing that fact.

It was actually 10 (not 5 people), some of them were Yuri Alexandrov, Victor Rybakov, Alexander Burmistrov, Alexandr Zolkin, Sergei Kobozev, and Sergei Atremiev was 1 of them also

[gdm]

Originally Posted by JAB5239

Come on man, are you serious? All you have to do is look a film of pat fighters to see they actually employed body punching, had better stamina and were better combination punchers. If the eastern Europeans had fought in the 80's and 90's I'm sure the top 10's would look different, but they certainly wouldn't look like today where Americas talent has severely dwindled at heavyweight.

I think you're a fucking moron ,delusional Klitchko hater , but I agree with everything you said above.

[BadDog]

Originally Posted by gdm

I think you're a fucking moron ,delusional Klitchko hater , but I agree with everything you said above.

you agree with a delusional retard? lol

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by Ncc84

There isn't a top fighter from america like a holmes or tyson, but other than those 2 the talent was no better than today.
There was a time when David Bey was rated as the 4th best american heavyweight.
Watch fighters like Banks and Jennings their skill level is quite exceptional.

Do you think it is just a coincidence that the eastern europeans entering the pros and america's perceived talent level dropping happened at the same time?

You're using a specifics with the David Bey theory. I'm talking on general. You can find those examples in any era including this one. I'm talking in general. Look at fighters like Page, Dones, Witherspoon, Tucker and so on. The talent difference is pretty clear.

I think its a combination of things. America's failing amateur program and less interest are part of it. And not putting down Ed's but these thing will run in cycles. Eastern Europe is the leader now. The UK looks to be next, and sooner or later it will come back around to America.

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by gdm

I think you're a fucking moron ,delusional Klitchko hater , but I agree with everything you said above.

You completely agree with a "fucking moron"? Lol, that's brilliant! What does it say about you?

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by BadDog

you agree with a delusional retard? lol

Yeah, you know, the guy who continually schools you.

[BadDog]

@jab5239, I put you on ignore since you never contribute to any discussion, insult all the posters who disagree with you, ignore links and sources posted that prove you wrong and never prove anything you wrote with actual facts, and even your buddies call you a delusional hater.

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by BadDog

@jab5239, I put you on ignore since you never contribute to any discussion, insult all the posters who disagree with you, ignore links and sources posted that prove you wrong and never prove anything you wrote with actual facts, and even your buddies call you a delusional hater.

Lol, you put me on ignore because you've finally grown tired of getting embarrassed and know you can't compete with me.

[BadDog]

what? all that is displayed is This message is hidden because JAB5239 is on your ignore list.
lol, fuck off troll

[JAB5239]

Originally Posted by BadDog

what? all that is displayed is This message is hidden because JAB5239 is on your ignore list.
lol, fuck off troll

Lmao!!! You know you own someone when they can't answer your questions, provide links and put you on iggy!