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Old 01-27-2013, 11:34 PM   #211
highguard
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
it still blows me away how many people do not understand this...


yes well some these guys think
that if they lift weights a week
they will look and move like a bodybuilder lol
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:36 PM   #212
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Boxers are not bodybuilders-some dont lift weights at all
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:43 PM   #213
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Boxers are not bodybuilders-some dont lift weights at all

boxers not are runners ether

but my point was the ignorance these guys here have about weights.
thinking that doing
any weight training will make them look and move like bodybuilders


i dont want to be a bodybuilder, and dont train like one

but i do understand how much work these guys put into into
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:44 PM   #214
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

This is a slightly off topic.

If I had to choose - great stamina or great strength - these days I'd choose stamina. Not just for boxing but life in general. Strength is a great asset and ideally you want both, but I find the ability to keep up a high work rate for longer is more beneficial.

Am I alone in this?

P.S. - when people say 'body weight' they basically mean training somewhere in the 15-25+ range. Not strictly accurate, as body weight exercises can be modified to increase strength in the 2-4 range, although progression is generally easier with weights and sometimes safer (many high end body weight exercises are plyometric; one legged squat jumps, for example; you should be naturally stocky to attempt these regularly, in my opinion, and with other, more extreme exercises such as one-arm pull ups, which can stress joints). Some body weight exercises are hard to replicate with weights, like the planche or muscle-up. From my own experience I think traning is best kept varied; an ideal routine will incorporate everything; high repetitions with kettle bells, hill sprints, swimming, bear complexes, low repetition compound lifting, calisthenics, cycling, plyometrics and more. With a particular sport in mind, it should be geared towards that, but you will find there are a lot of cross over benefits; a boxer may respond well to swimming, for example, where he may stimulate muscle areas usually under trained, and improve his balance.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:58 AM   #215
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Light weight, high reps can be helpful, but only using your own bodyweight can help ensure your don't get more bulky than your body frame can handle without suffering the consequences that Hasim Rahman and Frank Bruno suffered from being too muscular.
Jack Johnson,Joe Gans,Jim Corbett all used light weight and high reps to gain their muscle tone
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:03 AM   #216
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
This is a slightly off topic.

If I had to choose - great stamina or great strength - these days I'd choose stamina. Not just for boxing but life in general. Strength is a great asset and ideally you want both, but I find the ability to keep up a high work rate for longer is more beneficial.

Am I alone in this?

P.S. - when people say 'body weight' they basically mean training somewhere in the 15-25+ range. Not strictly accurate, as body weight exercises can be modified to increase strength in the 2-4 range, although progression is generally easier with weights and sometimes safer (many high end body weight exercises are plyometric; one legged squat jumps, for example; you should be naturally stocky to attempt these regularly, in my opinion, and with other, more extreme exercises such as one-arm pull ups, which can stress joints). Some body weight exercises are hard to replicate with weights, like the planche or muscle-up. From my own experience I think traning is best kept varied; an ideal routine will incorporate everything; high repetitions with kettle bells, hill sprints, swimming, bear complexes, low repetition compound lifting, calisthenics, cycling, plyometrics and more. With a particular sport in mind, it should be geared towards that, but you will find there are a lot of cross over benefits; a boxer may respond well to swimming, for example, where he may stimulate muscle areas usually under trained, and improve his balance.
If a professional boxer doesn't say the same thing(stamina over strength) he's a damn idiot. Lack of strength is an easily navigated weakness, just requires stylistic tweaks. Lack of stamina means getting KTFO early time and time again. I had the advantage myself of being absolutely massive, and a massive puncher; I was hard to press, and I was dangerous to press. But so many times, at my biggest, I felt incredibly vulnerable to being overwhelmed if only the other guy just attacked me. I'd surrender 70 pounds of this muscle and whatever goes with it for Manny Pacquiao type endurance.

And your post script is totally accurate. Old timers said it was "keeping the body guessing". I don't know the science behind it, but great variety by far and away works best for every single fighter I've ever met, which is thousands.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:26 AM   #217
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by Bill1234 View Post
Light weight, high reps can be helpful, but only using your own bodyweight can help ensure your don't get more bulky than your body frame can handle without suffering the consequences that Hasim Rahman and Frank Bruno suffered from being too muscular.
All the weight lifting in the world won't build any muscle unless the weight lifter is eating extra calories to fuel that muscle growth (unless steroids are involved).
A boxer could lift tons of weight and not gain any muscle mass if they were eating a substandard amount of calories.
I'm sure Rahman and Bruno (and also Briggs) were eating to fuel their muscle growth.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:32 AM   #218
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Hmmm... Either Ike Williams or your mother. Only joking

Either Jose Napoles or your mother.


Absolute nails...his mother was...don't make em like they used to NO SIREEE BOB!
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:34 AM   #219
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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I am so, so sorry if I pissed you off, I was only joking. ****, I didn't mean all that, you'd kill me, I know you would. I am going to Canada but please don't come looking for me, I'll be with my family, I really don't want any trouble! If you give me your address, perhaps I could send you some money or something to pay your gym fees, I know you train hard. I'm more than happy to sort this out peacefully.

Thanks and sorry again.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:38 AM   #220
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
If a professional boxer doesn't say the same thing(stamina over strength) he's a damn idiot. Lack of strength is an easily navigated weakness, just requires stylistic tweaks. Lack of stamina means getting KTFO early time and time again. I had the advantage myself of being absolutely massive, and a massive puncher; I was hard to press, and I was dangerous to press. But so many times, at my biggest, I felt incredibly vulnerable to being overwhelmed if only the other guy just attacked me. I'd surrender 70 pounds of this muscle and whatever goes with it for Manny Pacquiao type endurance.

And your post script is totally accurate. Old timers said it was "keeping the body guessing". I don't know the science behind it, but great variety by far and away works best for every single fighter I've ever met, which is thousands.
Agreed.

When I first started boxing all I did before hand was lift weights I had alot of strength and a big punch but it didn't mean shit when after 1 round of lively sparring I was knackered. Nowadays I've barely touched a weight in over 2 years yet can still lift more weights than I could before simply by body weight exercises, but my stamina and speed has notably increased. Then again like you said, variety is the best thing you can do for your body to keep it guessing, I've noticed recently that adding Rowing to my regime on top of all the calisthenics, swimming, running and boxing has helped alot.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:18 AM   #221
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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it still blows me away how many people do not understand this...
true...i am now the assistant coach at my boxing gym....the head coach guy is older than me who has allot more techniques and tricks to teach on boxing...but i cringe when he tells the guys what to do for weight lifting....
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:25 AM   #222
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

I think it is good to have a core set of things you do more or less all the time...for me it would be shadow boxing, jump rope (I think jump rope is really underrated..it keeps you on your toes..literally). heavybag, double end bag, Mitt work, sparring, push ups, sit ups, and six inches. I do other things, but they very..sometimes medicine ball throws, sometimes static strength training, sometimes weight, which is usually lower reps but on occasion high reps. I do run, but the kind of running i do varies, and I sometimes skip running to give my joints a break and do things like stepper machines and elliptical (which i dont like nearly as much as running, workout wise). And sometimes really mixing it up is a damn good thing (going on a all day hike, swimming all day, doing a strong man type circut, things like that). Also I try to watch out for overtraining in case my training is over lapping...like when I am doing boxing training 3 days a week, and mma training (which is usually more grappling related) I tend to back off any weight lifting..just because that wrestling gives you allot of heavy resistance type training and i dont want to over train.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:35 AM   #223
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

Oh i also do the rope drill, (stepping and weaving) as well as slip bag on a regular basis
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:17 PM   #224
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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I think it is good to have a core set of things you do more or less all the time...for me it would be shadow boxing, jump rope (I think jump rope is really underrated..it keeps you on your toes..literally). heavybag, double end bag, Mitt work, sparring, push ups, sit ups, and six inches. I do other things, but they very..sometimes medicine ball throws, sometimes static strength training, sometimes weight, which is usually lower reps but on occasion high reps. I do run, but the kind of running i do varies, and I sometimes skip running to give my joints a break and do things like stepper machines and elliptical (which i dont like nearly as much as running, workout wise). And sometimes really mixing it up is a damn good thing (going on a all day hike, swimming all day, doing a strong man type circut, things like that). Also I try to watch out for overtraining in case my training is over lapping...like when I am doing boxing training 3 days a week, and mma training (which is usually more grappling related) I tend to back off any weight lifting..just because that wrestling gives you allot of heavy resistance type training and i dont want to over train.
Add pull-ups to that and you have my core workout. It's important to keep boxing at the forefront of your boxing. You are training to feel better in a fight, with punches flying; If you aren't punching and/or getting punched at, nothing will be good enough. Beyond that, lungs and heart and legs are what you need to last in a fight. Everything else if useful window dressing.

Skipping road work for swimming and stuff is starting to become fashionable, and it can work. Juan Diaz, a recent fighter with an unbelievable gas tank(Possibly the best work horse fighter of the past 10 years), did swimming and some stairs and rope, and that was pretty much it, and he had the best gas tank in the sport.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:31 PM   #225
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Default Re: Why were many old time boxers so scrawny looking

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Add pull-ups to that and you have my core workout. It's important to keep boxing at the forefront of your boxing. You are training to feel better in a fight, with punches flying; If you aren't punching and/or getting punched at, nothing will be good enough. Beyond that, lungs and heart and legs are what you need to last in a fight. Everything else if useful window dressing.

Skipping road work for swimming and stuff is starting to become fashionable, and it can work. Juan Diaz, a recent fighter with an unbelievable gas tank(Possibly the best work horse fighter of the past 10 years), did swimming and some stairs and rope, and that was pretty much it, and he had the best gas tank in the sport.
They're essentially the same.
Also Wladimir does swimming now and he doesn't seem to gas anymore. (A 245 pound man can't run without hurting his knees anyway)

A treadmill is probably better for your knees too.(Because of shork absorbment)
Though running on a treadmill is easier than normal running (less air friction) so you either have to run at a higher pace or longer.
Treadmills with even more shock absorbment are even better for your knees.
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