Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by Nightcrawler

how do you play them

Poorly.

[Pachilles]

Originally Posted by Nightcrawler

it's more than following my post, Orriray came on with a fighting harada avatar. plus, he's the new hipster favourite on here

but harada may skirt the bottom of my top 50

Harada is one of my favourites, those fake San Fransiscans better leave him alone

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by anj

His skill level is on a different class to these top fighters.
Nonito's resume is already stacked with LEGIT champions, not phony champs.

Fighting Harada is solid but I'd still have Donaire over Harada.

**** off. Harada weighed in same day without super fly or super bantam division and beat far better fighters. Without corruption he'd be a genuine 3 weight World champ. How many can say that?

Just **** off.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by anj

You believe the whole era is virtually overrated lol
I don't think his current resume is good enough, but with the additional wins, he's a beast.

Mike McCallum is an ATG beast IMO, wins over:
James Toney 1 AND 2 (an old Mike who was made to lose a huge 10lbs for each fight.
Julian Jackson
Donald Curry
Ayub Kalule - who was at worst only marginally off prime, he beat Kalambay years later, Mike hadn't necessarily entered his prime either
Jeff Harding - LHW isn't even McCallum's prime weight!
Steve Collins
Michael Watson coming off a win against Nigel Benn
Kalambay - I don't know who 'really' won this as I didn't watch the fight
Milton McCroy

Him losing to Roy Jones at the very end of his career takes nothing away from his greatness, especially considering H2H Roy Jones is one of the very greatest of all time.

Losing to Fabrice is no biggie at 39 + well removed from Mike's prime weight.
I don't even count the Toney 3 loss.

All in all, I PERSONALLY believe he has a good shout for Top 50. What do you think? His resume is STACKED with elite names. I'm aware that the names on Donaire's resume isn't as great, but then nor is Mayweather's. I'm looking at it from a different angle.

This era is diluted. Anyone with a proper knowledge of the lower weights in the 60//70s will know how superior it is to those weights from the mid-80s onwards.

Nonito is a massive cutter.

Have you even seen Kalule Vs Kalambay?

[Flea Man]

I have Harada above Jofre in the 30-35 bracket.

Anyone disagrees? Come at me.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by anj

His skill level is on a different class to these top fighters.
Nonito's resume is already stacked with LEGIT champions, not phony champs.

Fighting Harada is solid but I'd still have Donaire over Harada.

Who was the guy beating THE champion and THE no.1 in the division? Harada.

Narvaez, Sydorenko were not genuine champs. Nor was Arce.

Hasegawa was consensus no.1 yet in terms of actual lineage the fighter he beat for the title (Sahaprom) was never considered as such.

Montiel had looked shit before and after the Hasegawa fight, although he admittedly laid down the blueprint to beat him, and Nonito iced him in impressive fashion.

Nonito has some solid K.O wins over fellow lightweight cutting 20lbs and protected shams like Narvaez, that much is true.

Also, Donaire only usually looks brilliant when his man is coming at him, Harada was more diverse as to where he could take the fight.

[Flea Man]

All Donaire has is more power.

Harada's best opponents are far superior;

Beat the consensus greatest bantam of all time.

Beat a top ten fly of all time (probably twice) although I don't rage Pone that highly.

Beat an arguable top ten all time fly (Ebihara)

1-1 with a superior version of Montiel (Medel)

[Boxed Ears]

Sometimes it's difficult to tell the difference between ignorance and trolling. Sometimes, if you think you see him, you just shouldn't mess with Mr. In-Between.

[anj]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

**** off. Harada weighed in same day without super fly or super bantam division and beat far better fighters. Without corruption he'd be a genuine 3 weight World champ. How many can say that?

Just **** off.

I admit I don't know enough about Harada other than he was very beatable against great fighters and school me then if you really think he's top 30-35 material, I could change my mind...

Losses to great fighters such as Pone Kingpetch, Johnny Famechon (FH probably won the first fight, but lost in the second fight - I don't buy that Harada was past his prime etc. he just lost to the better fighter on the night, Famechon had his number. It was only a 10 year career and FH was 26. No harm in getting handled by the great Famechon), Lionel Rose.

Losses to no namers:
He got Ezparza'd in what seems to be a close fight against the no namer...can you explain that loss? I'd just give Harada the benefit of the doubt because it was early on in his career and turned into a monster. That is enough for me.

Fighting Harada was given 1. a competitive fight and 2. lost to Cotler.


Wins:
1. Eder Jofre, nuff said. But then again, Benitez beat Duran but Duran is greater than Benitez.
2. Carballo was nothing special, he just beat a very past his prime Pascual Perez.
3. Antonio Herrera was quite good, still got the shorter end of the stick against beasts Sugar Ramos and Ismael Laguna..Ortiz disposes of these guys well.
4. Joe Medel is a huge win but he was very beatable. Nothing 'special' to warrant FH a great position in ATG rankings. Let's not forget Medel's TKO6 on Harada - Harada was getting toyed in that fight, glad it got stopped.
5. Alan Rudkin was a good win but this guy used to lose against the top opponents.
6. Ebihara - beastly win.

Harada didn't DOMINATE his opponents either. Jofre on the other hand has clear cut wins of them all. And Harada's style looks difficult for Jofre anyways.

- Don't argue why you think Harada is greater than someone like Donaire, argue why he's so high up in your rankings. It's not looking good for Harada

[Flea Man]

Esparza is not a no namer!!! He was a good contender.

Have you seen the second Kingpetch fight? Very debatable that Harada lost that one.

Did Rudkin lose against the best? Robbed against Ben Ali and McGowan the first time. Ran Rose VERY close. Again, looks like you're doing all your analysis based off boxrec.

Watch Aoki give Jofre fits for the first round and tell me Harada beating the shit out of him wasn't the better showing. Oh, you haven't seen footage that rare and I've done my research and have, so you're shit out of luck there

So what if he went 1-1 against Famechon? Was Fammo not a quality champion and naturally bigger than Harada?

Yes Medel beat Harada. He was that sneaky. Probably the best win a Mexican has, arguably anyway. Of course Harada's Resolve to try and keep getting up means little to you. Was Medel that beatable? Or was he a road warrior that doesn't get the due he deserves when you do a quick scan over his record?

What about Caraballo? You've probably never heard of him. Dwight Hawkins? One of the hardest pure punchers of the lower weights. Never heard of him have you?

Of course Harada had a bad style for Jofre, if that helps you diminish the quality of the win.

I would say it's not looking good for you, especially if you wanna' go tit-for-tat with me on the midgets of boxing.

[Flea Man]

I haven't dug up much on the Cotler loss but look how long Harada was a pro' for and how often he fought. He was known to take it easy or not bother sometimes, which he loses marks for of course.

Was Hernan Marquez, smaller and coming off a loss (against a nobody) really that good?

Was Wilfredo Vasquez Jr, with one good win over an over-hyped Sonsona, any good?

Did Nonito 'dominate' Mathebula?

Nonito struggled with an overweight Concepcion FFS! He also lost to a no namer (and actual no-namer) but I don't hold that against him.

Harada is so high because of his incredible achievements, IMO earning wins over the best over 3 weightclasses, with same day weigh in's and no super/junior weightclasses to **** around in. The two wins over Jofre are HUGE. It's like saying 'apart from beating Sonny Liston and George Foreman what did Muhammad Ali actually do'.

Again, how dominant was Guts Ishimatsu?

[Flea Man]

Hold on...you admit the only thing you know about Harada was that 'he was beatable against great fighters'?

Why do you even post? All that comes out is utter shite.

[anj]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Esparza is not a no namer!!! He was a good contender.

Have you seen the second Kingpetch fight? Very debatable that Harada lost that one.

Did Rudkin lose against the best? Robbed against Ben Ali and McGowan the first time. Ran Rose VERY close. Again, looks like you're doing all your analysis based off boxrec.

So what if he went 1-1 against Famechon? Was Fammo not a quality champion and naturally bigger than Harada?

Yes Medel beat Harada. He was that sneaky. Probably the best win a Mexican has, arguably anyway. Of course Harada's Resolve to try and keep getting up means little to you. Was Medel that beatable? Or was he a road warrior that doesn't get the due he deserves when you do a quick scan over his record?

What about Caraballo? You've probably never heard of him. Dwight Hawkins? One of the hardest pure punchers of the lower weights. Never heard of him have you?

Of course Harada had a bad style for Jofre, if that helps you diminish the quality of the win.

I would say it's not looking good for you, especially if you wanna' go tit-for-tat with me on the midgets of boxing.

Like I said, I don't know enough about Harada but....I can't conceptualise Harada in top 40 like you.

Coming close with Lionel Rose (sure a great fighter but I rate Nelson's loss over Sanchez greater, Nelson probably wouldn't even be in my top 65 - I can probably think of other greater losses from fighters outside top 50 if I had to sit there and meditate over it, going 1-1 against Famechon, getting TKO6'd by Medel...still doesn't do it for me. I don't doubt that Medel was a solid fighter, but he still is very beatable. Why are you not giving glory to the no namers who beat Medel?

For him to be that high in the rankings, he'd at least have to beat someone like Lionel Rose. Jofre paid his dues, beating someone like Vicente Salvidar at aged 37 + at such a low weight class and not even at Jofre's prime weight was not an easy task and I rate this over any of the wins/feats that you mention.
I thought I mentioned Hawkins, obv not. Beating Shibata is a huge deal, but I'll be careful not to overrate Hawkins.

Well it doesn't help the quality of his win. Mayweather beating Marquez for example would never get the same sort of glory as someone else with a style that makes for a war, would get had he have beaten Marquez.

P.S you need to learn to relax. It's funny that I can toy around with a mans emotions so easily over a simple conversation about Fighting Harada haha asking the guy to tell me why I should rate him higher and being open.

[Flea Man]

It wasn't Close with Rose. Rose dominated Harada. Rudkin ran Rose close.

Saldivar was shot to bits when Jofre beat him. Honestly, just stop talking you're making yourself look clueless. You're talking about things you have no clue about, don't know the context of, and are reaching to suit your agenda.

Again, did those no names 'beat' Medel or are you just looking on boxrec?

[anj]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

It wasn't Close with Rose. Rose dominated Harada. Rudkin ran Rose close.

Saldivar was shot to bits when Jofre beat him. Honestly, just stop talking you're making yourself look clueless. You're talking about things you have no clue about, don't know the context of, and are reaching to suit your agenda.

Again, did those no names 'beat' Medel or are you just looking on boxrec?

lol it wasn't close with Rose. Oh dear, oh dear.

Ok fine, the wins against Medel is a robbery if that's what will calm your blood pressure.