Smelling saltes as a PED

[Saintpat]

They were used, and quite widely, for years to revive concussed boxers on their stools between rounds. Guy comes back wobbly, a whiff of amonia and his head is cleared.

Should this be considered when weighing ATG lists and such? I know many discount boxers who have tested positive for steroids, or who they even suspect of using them, and those who gain massive weight by IV between the weigh-in and the first bell.

But isn't this also something that enhanced performance? How should it be considered as a factor?

[Jack]

I think it's unfair to condemn users of smelling salts, or any other enhancing drug, in hindsight. If it was allowed at the time, I don't think we should look back and criticise their use of it, or suggest they weren't as great because they had help from products which are now banned.

You touch on an interesting point. Guys like Mosley, Holyfield, Toney, Jones etc., are very rarely criticised because of their drug use. In 'ATG vs. ATG' hypothetical arguments, you very rarely see comments about one fighter being a proven cheat and that being part of the reason they were so good, for example. It's almost swept under the rug by fans.

Personally, I think it's unfair to criticise usage of drugs if they were allowed at the time, which includes smelling salts. However, I'm very critical of cheats who knew the rules and broke them anyway

[Flea Man]

Lovely post Jack.

[kmac]

Originally Posted by Jack

I think it's unfair to condemn users of smelling salts, or any other enhancing drug, in hindsight. If it was allowed at the time, I don't think we should look back and criticise their use of it, or suggest they weren't as great because they had help from products which are now banned.

You touch on an interesting point. Guys like Mosley, Holyfield, Toney, Jones etc., are very rarely criticised because of their drug use. In 'ATG vs. ATG' hypothetical arguments, you very rarely see comments about one fighter being a proven cheat and that being part of the reason they were so good, for example. It's almost swept under the rug by fans.

Personally, I think it's unfair to criticise usage of drugs if they were allowed at the time, which includes smelling salts. However, I'm very critical of cheats who knew the rules and broke them anyway

jack, you have a lot of posts here but i think when it comes to jones, the complete opposite of what you wrote is true.

[MagnaNasakki]

Agreed 100% with Jack, AND

Try smelling salts when you are groggy. They aren't the end all cure they are built up to be. Had em tried on me once after I got dropped hard sparring. They didn't do shit. I was still toast.

[Todd498]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Agreed 100% with Jack, AND

Try smelling salts when you are groggy. They aren't the end all cure they are built up to be. Had em tried on me once after I got dropped hard sparring. They didn't do shit. I was still toast.

And that was your spar with Wladimir?

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by Todd498

And that was your spar with Wladimir?

Nah, I was like 15 or 16 years old. The guy running it that day wanted me to get up and "keep working". He got some other kid hurt too, something else. Lost him his job.

[Todd498]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Nah, I was like 15 or 16 years old. The guy running it that day wanted me to get up and "keep working". He got some other kid hurt too, something else. Lost him his job.

Wow the guy sounds like a tool. Glad it cost him his job

[Johnstown]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Nah, I was like 15 or 16 years old. The guy running it that day wanted me to get up and "keep working". He got some other kid hurt too, something else. Lost him his job.

did you ever thank him for making you tough

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by Johnstown

did you ever thank him for making you tough

Man, my childhood and being the little guy in one of the best young amateur heavyweight global scenes ever made me tough. You can only take so many hidings from celebrities before you go from soft to hard in a hurry. I wasn't the healthiest youngster, either. Might be why the salts didn't work.

Thing is, I just believe they are overstated. They get brought up in Ali-Cooper all the time; Ali was up and more or less fine at the bell. If you can stand and get your legs under you, a minute is enough to clear your head. He comes out, takes a bit of a breather, and decides he's mad and tears Cooper's face to shreds, done.

He recovered from a one-hitter quitter. He was in no danger of being finished once that round ended. The rest of the controversy is just bull. He should have been deducted a point or two, and the salts thrown out, and the outcome is the exact same.

[PowerPuncher]

Why does everyone hold PEDs against sports people? The drugs don't win you anything on their own, they help you improve your level and allow you to work even harder. Most amateur sports enthusiasts use banned substances to improve their performances anyway

You can also be pretty sure boxers who are 'winners' with sociopathic tendencies won't have any scruples about using something because 'it's banned' when they're happy enough to publicly wack you in the nuts in a prize ring.

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Why does everyone hold PEDs against sports people? The drugs don't win you anything on their own, they help you improve your level and allow you to work even harder. Most amateur sports enthusiasts use banned substances to improve their performances anyway

You can also be pretty sure boxers who are 'winners' with sociopathic tendencies won't have any scruples about using something because 'it's banned' when they're happy enough to publicly wack you in the nuts in a prize ring.

A fair point. I think it comes from the rage against the stacked deck and the tendency to sympathize with the honorable.

There is a sizeable minority of boxers who refuses staunchly to use PEDs as a matter of honor. The lay-fan admires them, and despises other fighters for having advantages over their heroes not brought on by God or skill.

I don't like PEDS because it all but eliminates a key element of fighting, and that is smart training. Part of the fight is the preparation for it. Who worked harder and who worked smarter? As PEDs become more prevalent, this storied part of combat is fast becoming laughable.

Also, pre-fight injuries are on the rise, and I have no doubt that PEDs, and the maniacal training regime they allow, are a contributor to that.

[Webbiano]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Man, my childhood and being the little guy in one of the best young amateur heavyweight global scenes ever made me tough. You can only take so many hidings from celebrities before you go from soft to hard in a hurry. I wasn't the healthiest youngster, either. Might be why the salts didn't work.

Thing is, I just believe they are overstated. They get brought up in Ali-Cooper all the time; Ali was up and more or less fine at the bell. If you can stand and get your legs under you, a minute is enough to clear your head. He comes out, takes a bit of a breather, and decides he's mad and tears Cooper's face to shreds, done.

He recovered from a one-hitter quitter. He was in no danger of being finished once that round ended. The rest of the controversy is just bull. He should have been deducted a point or two, and the salts thrown out, and the outcome is the exact same.

I have to disagree with you here. Ali should have been disqualified and I can't see how anyone could deny it. Whether they helped Ali or not, they where banned in the UK at the time, therefore he should have been disqualified.

[MagnaNasakki]

Originally Posted by Webbiano

I have to disagree with you here. Ali should have been disqualified and I can't see how anyone could deny it. Whether they helped Ali or not, they where banned in the UK at the time, therefore he should have been disqualified.

DQ is ALWAYS the discretion of the referee. He can deduct, he can DQ, or he can do nothing, for any offense, at any time. He is God in the ring, sharing the crown with the Doctor in some commissions.

If the referee chose not to do it, that's how it goes, and the outcome of the fight is the outcome of the fight. Me, personally, I'd have penalized and threw out the banned substance and the cornerman in question. But it wasn't me. I don't like throwing out the outcomes of fights. This fight was decided by punches thrown and received, and that should stand wherever possible. Ring justice.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

A fair point. I think it comes from the rage against the stacked deck and the tendency to sympathize with the honorable.

There is a sizeable minority of boxers who refuses staunchly to use PEDs as a matter of honor. The lay-fan admires them, and despises other fighters for having advantages over their heroes not brought on by God or skill.

I don't like PEDS because it all but eliminates a key element of fighting, and that is smart training. Part of the fight is the preparation for it. Who worked harder and who worked smarter? As PEDs become more prevalent, this storied part of combat is fast becoming laughable.

Also, pre-fight injuries are on the rise, and I have no doubt that PEDs, and the maniacal training regime they allow, are a contributor to that.

It's where you draw the line with PEDs for me. Technically a cup of strong coffee could be a PED, I mean it's not banned but it's got caffeine that will give you a boost.

Then you have the plethora of performance enhancing supplements that aren't banned but improve performance a little, not as much as the banned but the intent is essentially the same.

Then you have, don't laugh, Viagra, not banned, but a better PED than quite a few banned PEDs

I don't like a stacked deck either, but I think pro-sports gone beyond that, at least in boxing 'skills beats all' to a degree. You can take a bodybuilder taking shedloads of PEDs and he'll get beat silly and outlasted by a fat out of shape boxer