Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

[Flea Man]

He did. She was however his best opponent.

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

He did. She was however his best opponent.

[Flea Man]

I believe the correct reply was 'Zing!'

[orriray59]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

He did. She was however his best opponent.

[LittleRed]

If I don't post for a while its because i'm in the hospital getting treated for third degree Burns.

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

I believe the correct reply was 'Zing!'

i was in a meeting with my boss otherwise, i would have posted this...

zing!

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

I have Harada above Jofre in the 30-35 bracket.

Anyone disagrees? Come at me.

I'm coming. And after I close that window we're going to discuss this.

[Flea Man]

You've really got it in for me this week Red.

[anj]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

I'm coming. And after I close that window we're going to discuss this.

Count me in too, I REALLY want to know.

Fighting Harada with my limited knowledge, I'll place him around 51-60 which isn't half bad!

The case for Harada being in Top 50:
1. The wins over Eder Jofre, although Jofre's style was made for Harada, it's still a completely monstrous ATG win.

2. Harada beat all of the top fighters that Jofre beat...i.e Seki, Rudkin, Medel, Caraballo, apart from Legra and Saldivar (who Harada didn't face), but as Flea stated and it's true, Saldivar was way past his prime (although Jofre was somewhat past his prime too, being 37 and no longer in his prime weight).
Point 2 is a legit point because Jofre are in most people's top 50.

3. He also has a win over Ebihara who was a very solid midget.

4. He did all of this, all in a period of 10 years, from ages 16-26.


Why he doesn't quite fit Top 50:

1. His loss to contenders like Esparza lol
2. He lost the Harada-Kingpetch rivalry..But I haven't seen the second fight to judge for myself.
3. TKO6 loss to Joe Medel, however..with credit, he did avenge this loss.
4. Jofre blitzed his opponents, Harada could barely scrape past some of them!
5. His loss to Lionel Rose. I would really be expecting a win against Rose. I haven't seen much of Harada but the way some people on this forum talk, it's as if he has Pernell Whitaker skill level or something. As a layman on FH, this loss makes me think...hmm...he always had a tough time with TOP opposition that I recognise. Harada moved back down to his prime weight for this fight also.
6. Harada, the son of Johnny Famechon. Harada arguably won the first fight, but Famechon laid the smackdown on Harada in Harada's final fight.
- With point 6, it's important to note that it wasn't at his prime weight. I haven't seen how he operated during these fights compared to when he was at 118lbs. I mean on this forum someone said Cotto was 'shot' when he fought Mayweather...I saw the fight, Cotto was a monster. You have to watch it yourself.


Yes I am a layman where FH is involved as you can see, but Flea is a die hard Harada fan who probably glorifies that era more than what it's worth (even if worth a lot) just like how old men replace their viagra with a conversation over old timers, which they get erections over, so remember to take things with a pinch of salt.

Harada, a great ATG, beatable but Great.

This discussion and my research will either make me rate FH higher or Jofre lower

[Flea Man]

Good post anj but a few points:

How did he lose the Kingpetch rivalry? They only fought twice and the first was an absolute annihilation where Harada looked as good ad anyone ever has filmed in a
Prize ring.

A 'beatable great'?! Who isn't?! Oh, Jofre for one. Only one man managed to solve that puzzle.

Why did you say 'lol' after Esparza? It shows what a fucking retard you are. Are you 17?

You are making most of your stuff up!!!

How did he 'move back down to his prime weight?'

I've already given you an example of Harada dealing with an opponent with less trouble than Jofre did. Jofre was also a big puncher and Harada was not. Bringing this up again shows your bias. I'm assuming you rank Muhammad Ali behind George Foreman for the same reason even though, like Harada he holds a distinction no one else does over him (Only man to stop Foreman/Harada only man to beat Jofre) but scraped past opponents Foreman bludgeoned inside a few rounds (Norton & Frazier)

Also, of you have him in the 50th place with no clue whatsoever about him what's to say you wouldn't rate him as highly as me once you knew more?

You say you wanna' learn yet ignore the facts, haven't seen the footage, keep relying on boxrec to support your arguments (BTW it's Aoki, not Seki they both fought)

How can you hold not facing Saldivar and Legra against Harada? Why not criticise Jofre for not moving down and beating Kingpetch and Ebihara? Speaking of Ebihara, do you know the circumstances in which Harada established his superiority over him and why it was an important victory?

Also, who said Harada is like Floyd?! He's a swarmed who could box a bit as well. That's it. Incredible jab as well, could chase you with it and befor you knew it he was all over ya', the constant jab in your face an annoyance that made you forget there was a man behind the fist getting closer, and closer.

Beast.

[Nightcrawler]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Good post anj but a few points:

How did he lose the Kingpetch rivalry? They only fought twice and the first was an absolute annihilation where Harada looked as good ad anyone ever has filmed in a
Prize ring.

A 'beatable great'?! Who isn't?! Oh, Jofre for one. Only one man managed to solve that puzzle.

Why did you say 'lol' after Esparza? It shows what a fucking retard you are. Are you 17?

You are making most of your stuff up!!!

How did he 'move back down to his prime weight?'

I've already given you an example of Harada dealing with an opponent with less trouble than Jofre did. Jofre was also a big puncher and Harada was not. Bringing this up again shows your bias. I'm assuming you rank Muhammad Ali behind George Foreman for the same reason even though, like Harada he holds a distinction no one else does over him (Only man to stop Foreman/Harada only man to beat Jofre) but scraped past opponents Foreman bludgeoned inside a few rounds (Norton & Frazier)

Also, of you have him in the 50th place with no clue whatsoever about him what's to say you wouldn't rate him as highly as me once you knew more?

You say you wanna' learn yet ignore the facts, haven't seen the footage, keep relying on boxrec to support your arguments (BTW it's Aoki, not Seki they both fought)

How can you hold not facing Saldivar and Legra against Harada? Why not criticise Jofre for not moving down and beating Kingpetch and Ebihara? Speaking of Ebihara, do you know the circumstances in which Harada established his superiority over him and why it was an important victory?

Also, who said Harada is like Floyd?! He's a swarmed who could box a bit as well. That's it. Incredible jab as well, could chase you with it and befor you knew it he was all over ya', the constant jab in your face an annoyance that made you forget there was a man behind the fist getting closer, and closer.

Beast.

i wonder why more swarmers and boxers with INCREDIBLE stamina didn't rely more on the damn jab. some fighters like armstrong seemed to live in the pocked and the jab wasn't their bread and butter but if you can bust out 50 jabs a round, with in and out as well as lateral movement, you don't NEED to get inside and turn it into a brawl every single round. mixing in a consistent, accurate jab can only help you rather than relying solely on heavy hooks on the inside. that's what i love about harada: he can't be classified as a traditional swarmer because he did so much stuff swarmers can't/won't do

[AlFrancis]

Originally Posted by Nightcrawler

i wonder why more swarmers and boxers with INCREDIBLE stamina didn't rely more on the damn jab. some fighters like armstrong seemed to live in the pocked and the jab wasn't their bread and butter but if you can bust out 50 jabs a round, with in and out as well as lateral movement, you don't NEED to get inside and turn it into a brawl every single round. mixing in a consistent, accurate jab can only help you rather than relying solely on heavy hooks on the inside. that's what i love about harada: he can't be classified as a traditional swarmer because he did so much stuff swarmers can't/won't do

I agree with you. Harada was a swarmer who did it behind a great jab and great footwork. He was also a great ring general, great at changing the pace.
Esparza was a good fighter as it happens, my old fella rated him highly. He was good enough to beat Harada in Japan on points. That for me is a better result than Medel knocking him out.

[Flea Man]

That is a way of looking at it!

And yes, he was a good fighter. Your dad would know more about that then someone having a quick scan over boxrec.

Also, I agree with you and Nightcrawler; I would say Harada is more 'skilled' than Floyd anyway. Because he proved it against a sufficient bunch of different stylists rather than the straight on, open wide blokes Floyd has made a living tattooing.

Now if anj had said Sumbu Kalambay I'd not have had a leg to stand on.

[lora]

To really appreciate Harada you have get that he was more of a natural Fly(albeit a big one) and was a fat bastard that ate his way through the weights between fights.The Esparza fight is an early example of that...he fought him as a fat over the weight Flyweight.

understand that and watch stuff like Kingpetch and Jofre and you begin to see what a monster he was when near his best fighting shape.It also helps to understand why he was't the most consistent performer after actually winning titles, nor blessed with terrific longevity.Both of which he obvously should be criticised for and not just used as excuses.

However guys like that usually had nowhere near the career Harada did back when their weren't junior weightclasses and less belts.he was fighting borderline great\all-time great fighters at every weight he jumped up to.

Harada would have been even more at home in a junior weightclass climate with less fights expected per year, opponent's far more thoroughly scouted so as to pick the most beatable and a big Western promoter like Arum or King.Easier to get punished for not being at your best against a Lionel Rose than it is against some chump only there to survive like Narvaez.then he'd have a lengthy notice when a hyped fight against a supposed threat does get made.

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

You've really got it in for me this week Red.

Challenges have been thrown. And accepted. Soon.