Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

[gentleman jim]

Frazier had more than just a left hook. The problem with Joe was that he sometimes relied on it too much which made his offense somewhat one dimensonal. When he chose to use his rght hand more he was a very dangerous opponent as we saw in his second fight with Quarry. In the FOTC Joe tagged Ali with a few sneaky and powerful right hands that rocked Muhammed and he often threw the right to the body along with the left hook. Combine that with his head and body movement and relentless pressure and Evander is in for a long night. When I look at the FOTC I'm surprised at the number of punches Joe made Ali miss with his bob and weave and head movement. If he could make the fastest HW of all time miss that many shots then he can make Holyfield miss alot as well. Granted he'll take a lot but Holy didn't have the kind of power to stop a prime Frazier in his tracks which is why I think Joe takes a hard fought UD n a great fight.

[TheSouthpaw]

Originally Posted by gentleman jim

Frazier had more than just a left hook. The problem with Joe was that he sometimes relied on it too much which made his offense somewhat one dimensonal. When he chose to use his rght hand more he was a very dangerous opponent as we saw in his second fight with Quarry. In the FOTC Joe tagged Ali with a few sneaky and powerful right hands that rocked Muhammed and he often threw the right to the body along with the left hook. Combine that with his head and body movement and relentless pressure and Evander is in for a long night. When I look at the FOTC I'm surprised at the number of punches Joe made Ali miss with his bob and weave and head movement. If he could make the fastest HW of all time miss that many shots then he can make Holyfield miss alot as well. Granted he'll take a lot but Holy didn't have the kind of power to stop a prime Frazier in his tracks which is why I think Joe takes a hard fought UD n a great fight.

He did bust Quarrys ass!!!..

[ETM]

I dont necessarily agree that Holyfield had the better chin. Both guys took a great shot and both cameback from it uncommonly well. Both guys were knocked down but the biggest difference being that Holyfield never faced a 25 year old murderous version of George Foreman that Joe faced.

Id say chins are pretty even.

[Rajon Rondo]

Originally Posted by champian

all the old time fighters are overrated ^ ....i mean they were good for there time...but all this non sense about any of them beating 80's to now fighters is just being a blind dumbass...

Yeah.......the one guy who fought in the early 70's in George Foreman who came back 20 odd years later and was more than competitive in his mid 40's makes your assumption look foolish.

[PowerPuncher]

Holyfield wins, he's better at pretty much everything bar left hooks.

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

I would disagree, and actually believe that a few others will agree with me??? The thought that this was the best version of Frazier is a sterotype based upon the fact that this was his biggest win...IMHO Frazier from 68 Mathis through 69 Quarry I is the absolute peak version of Frazier.

No and that's like saying 'he looked better on the heavybag than he did against Ali', you can't compare and he looked poor against Quarry early anyway

[Waynegrade]

I have to go with Frazier and here`s why. If you carefully watch Holy`s fights with Bowe, Bowe tore up Holy inside. Reason ? Bowe was a master infighter for a big man because he was taught by the absolute best, Eddie Futch. Who just happened to be Frazier`s trainer as well. In a phone booth war, Frazier gets inside and goes to war. It`s a tough fight, a competitive fight but Frazier`s. Holy doesn`t have Foreman type power to get Frazier on the deck. So Frazier keeps `Smokin` the whole time. Possibile late rd stoppage from an accumulations of bodyshots and heavy leaft hooks eventually get to Holy. I just san`t see Holy keeping `71` edition Frazier off him ...

[Waynegrade]

Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw

Good call E!...He looked great at 205!

Frazier at 205 was a beast !! Agreed !

[Waynegrade]

Originally Posted by Bill Butcher

Take that nonsense to the general.

Another Einstein comment ...

[Waynegrade]

Originally Posted by champian

frazier was a fat 205...holyfield was solid ass **** 215...um....

You must be looking in your mirror ...

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Waynegrade

I have to go with Frazier and here`s why. If you carefully watch Holy`s fights with Bowe, Bowe tore up Holy inside. Reason ? Bowe was a master infighter for a big man because he was taught by the absolute best, Eddie Futch. Who just happened to be Frazier`s trainer as well. In a phone booth war, Frazier gets inside and goes to war. It`s a tough fight, a competitive fight but Frazier`s. Holy doesn`t have Foreman type power to get Frazier on the deck. So Frazier keeps `Smokin` the whole time. Possibile late rd stoppage from an accumulations of bodyshots and heavy leaft hooks eventually get to Holy. I just san`t see Holy keeping `71` edition Frazier off him ...

Except Bowe is about 35lbs heavier than Frazier making him the unmovable object and hits about twice as hard. As for Frazier stopping Holyfield, pass the pipe

[Waynegrade]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Except Bowe is about 35lbs heavier than Frazier making him the unmovable object and hits about twice as hard. As for Frazier stopping Holyfield, pass the pipe

While I pass YOU the pipe (again) if you do in fact look close. It was Bowe`s inside manuevering and technique that Beat Holy inside... If Frazier was able to break down Ali in FOTC, who was faster and with a better chin than Holy. Why wouldn`t Frazier be able to break down Holy ????? You realize of course that Holy lacks true one punch power to keep Frazier off of him ??? Holy would foolishly want to engage Frazier in a war, and beating Frazier at his game ain`t happening. Doesn`t matter what pipe you smoke. And guess what, if Holy chooses to box and stay away. Frazier has the wheels an heart to wear him down. Unless of course you want to tell me that Holy was more elusive than Ali and a better boxer ??? If you don`t think Frazier hit hard enough, especially to the body. Tell that to Ali who had to use a cane for week and urinated blood as well after Manila ... Kudos for great points at exactly how Holy would steamroll Frazier !! BTW rocketman, did you happen to miss how a very poor mans Frazier in Bert Cooper almose stopped Holyfield ??? Oops, forgot that one right ? That was a jammed up Cooper who`s body attack wasn`t even remotley close to Frazier`s ...

[McGrain]

I'd pick Frazier on points.

[FlyingFrenchman]

Originally Posted by Waynegrade

I have to go with Frazier and here`s why. If you carefully watch Holy`s fights with Bowe, Bowe tore up Holy inside. Reason ? Bowe was a master infighter for a big man because he was taught by the absolute best, Eddie Futch. Who just happened to be Frazier`s trainer as well. In a phone booth war, Frazier gets inside and goes to war. It`s a tough fight, a competitive fight but Frazier`s. Holy doesn`t have Foreman type power to get Frazier on the deck. So Frazier keeps `Smokin` the whole time. Possibile late rd stoppage from an accumulations of bodyshots and heavy leaft hooks eventually get to Holy. I just san`t see Holy keeping `71` edition Frazier off him ...

Interesting... but Bowe is 6'5" with an 82" reach and a solid 235-240 Lbs. at his best. Bowe was also quick and athletic. Futch trained both, but they were completely different fighters. Frazier won't be able to lean on Holyfield like Bowe did. Say what you will about Bowe but he remains one of only 3 Lineal HW Champs who never lost by KO/TKO... Tunney and Marciano are the others.

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Waynegrade

While I pass YOU the pipe (again) if you do in fact look close. It was Bowe`s inside manuevering and technique that Beat Holy inside... If Frazier was able to break down Ali in FOTC, who was faster and with a better chin than Holy. Why wouldn`t Frazier be able to break down Holy ????? You realize of course that Holy lacks true one punch power to keep Frazier off of him ??? Holy would foolishly want to engage Frazier in a war, and beating Frazier at his game ain`t happening. Doesn`t matter what pipe you smoke. And guess what, if Holy chooses to box and stay away. Frazier has the wheels an heart to wear him down. Unless of course you want to tell me that Holy was more elusive than Ali and a better boxer ??? If you don`t think Frazier hit hard enough, especially to the body. Tell that to Ali who had to use a cane for week and urinated blood as well after Manila ... Kudos for great points at exactly how Holy would steamroll Frazier !! BTW rocketman, did you happen to miss how a very poor mans Frazier in Bert Cooper almose stopped Holyfield ??? Oops, forgot that one right ? That was a jammed up Cooper who`s body attack wasn`t even remotley close to Frazier`s ...

You're falling into the trap of thinking boxing is 'box and move or brawl' but boxing isn't that simple. Holyfield will lead with the jab and back Frazier up and counter punch him. On the outside Holyfield easily picks Frazier off. Allot of the fight will happen on the outside with Holyfield standing his ground.

Holyfield's great technical skills saw him time, countered and back up Tyson before stopping him.

Holyfield is a much better inside and fitter than Ali, Ali was on top for the first 7 rounds too and then Frazier took over

An inside fight is much harder against a man who is 40lbs heavier because they are harder to push backwards, they are more durable and they hit harder.

Also don't mock Holyfield's power, he isn't a KO puncher usually but he hits more than hard enough to back Frazier up, Quarry and Ali backed Frazier up and Holyfield hits harder than them I think. Actually don't be surprised if Frazier is backed up for allot of this fight.

Holyfield's technical skill level is much better than Frazier, that'd be the difference here with Holyfield matching him for stamina and being the bigger man

[PhillyPhan69]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Holyfield wins, he's better at pretty much everything bar left hooks.



No and that's like saying 'he looked better on the heavybag than he did against Ali', you can't compare and he looked poor against Quarry early anyway

Looked poor early and Quarry won round 1 are not quite the same thing!