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Old 01-28-2013, 06:56 PM   #91
LittleRed
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

I joke but Harada is ****ing fantastic. Watch the first Kingpetch fight first both because its chronological and its his most complete ass kicking on film. Although both Jofre fights are very good (1 more than 2).
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:26 PM   #92
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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I joke but Harada is ****ing fantastic. Watch the first Kingpetch fight first both because its chronological and its his most complete ass kicking on film. Although both Jofre fights are very good (1 more than 2).
think i'll start my next "Score fights while drunk and high" Friday Boxing Fest with that one
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:33 PM   #93
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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think i'll start my next "Score fights while drunk and high" Friday Boxing Fest with that one
Sounds like a good idea!
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:40 PM   #94
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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Sounds like a good idea!
i'm blessed with the most patient wife imaginable who puts up with my boxing shennanigans and is more than happy to come to the IBHOF with me this year she rolls her eyes patiently as I yell "did you see what willie pastrano just did?! let me rewind it for you..."
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:53 PM   #95
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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i'm blessed with the most patient wife imaginable who puts up with my boxing shennanigans and is more than happy to come to the IBHOF with me this year she rolls her eyes patiently as I yell "did you see what willie pastrano just did?! let me rewind it for you..."
I wish my wife was like that
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:06 AM   #96
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

I am not bipolar. I'm sound to everyone who isn't a massive mong. AlFrancis has met me, I didn't call him a retard or swear at him because he's a sound bloke. You on the other hand do not know when you're wrong and make misguided assumptions and back them up by essentially saying 'I can't be wrong because I'm making it up as I go along'.

You really don't get it. Everything you have said regarding my opinions is worthless because I have seen the fights and done the research. You will never learn more about these fighters than what I have told you.

I was talking about the first Fanechon fight. Which you haven't seen,

Why did Jofre obviously beat those guys that way? Spurious you are literally GUESSING!

I am blocking you as you offer nothing. You will never teach me anything and you're basically a troll because you're so ignorant and such a spasticated poster (not surprising as you're from Es***)

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It does make sense, you need to follow the logic brah. For arguments sake let us admit that he was as skilled as you say, yet not skilled enough to beat Rose, Cotler lol, Esparza, Famechon who despite knocking him down a few times as you stated, still was losing on points before getting daddied. That is not the attitude of a 'great' boxer who has this amount of skill and loses against fighters who he should really beat tbh. Eder Jofre obviously beat these on the basis of being able to outbox them with his own skills, and his hard punching. You are simply making shit up by pointing towards Jofre's harder punching as the reasoning why he blitzed opponents that Harada barely scraped past..thus implying it's the only way.

I'm not forming an opinion him 'as a fighter', but just forming an opinion of his record, as that's all I can do for now before I go further into research like I already told you..learn to read and understand simple statements lol


- I addressed the Famechon point about 'daddy'. I will have to look at how affected Harada was by moving up in weight. Comment on how much it affected him - I will also watch the fights and see for myself.

'Or Jofre x2' - This is why I'm telling you to relax, it's like you're assuming everything is an attack on Harada...this is just a separate statement about Saldivar and his greatness. i.e if we're going to see Harada as great, I see wins over Ramos and Laguna as being greater than Rudkin and Caraballo..

'I knew when I was wrong though' - I will confirm whether I'm wrong or not when I make my own conclusion, so far I don't know and I admit I don't know, jheez! Selective reading or what..

'How can you be animated typing on a keyboard?' You get defensive and have a childish agressiveness in your expression, hence why you're like 'just **** off, **** off, you shouldn't be posting' etc. all this serious bullshit and have this butthurt attitude haha

- sure, I asked to be schooled, but I want to discuss the points. Being schooled doesn't come with beta keyboard power bullshit that you sprawl..And you called me a retard 'and as a friend and respected knowledge-sharer you don't deserve any curt or dismissive responses.'
- Nah, you got to make a compromise mr Bipolar.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:54 AM   #97
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

He'd need all those names, and he needs them soon, while they are relevant. He has a good CV, but only Darchinyan and Vasquez were at their peak and "legit" in your definition when he fought them, a Vasquez is a pretty weak titlist.

Donaire is heading for greatness. But a legend? He has a ways to go.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:23 AM   #98
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

Vasquez had been caught up to by Arce before that. Don't think he even had a trinket at that point.

Moruti, Vic, Montiel. All very good scalps IMO.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:27 AM   #99
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Vasquez had been caught up to by Arce before that. Don't think he even had a trinket at that point.

Moruti, Vic, Montiel. All very good scalps IMO.
I forgot Montiel. Probably his best scalp. Cracking left hook.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:29 AM   #100
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

Supoib! And in Donaire's defence Montiel weighed more than him (for once)
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:16 AM   #101
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
I am not bipolar. I'm sound to everyone who isn't a massive mong. AlFrancis has met me, I didn't call him a retard or swear at him because he's a sound bloke. You on the other hand do not know when you're wrong and make misguided assumptions and back them up by essentially saying 'I can't be wrong because I'm making it up as I go along'.

You really don't get it. Everything you have said regarding my opinions is worthless because I have seen the fights and done the research. You will never learn more about these fighters than what I have told you.

I was talking about the first Fanechon fight. Which you haven't seen,

Why did Jofre obviously beat those guys that way? Spurious you are literally GUESSING!

I am blocking you as you offer nothing. You will never teach me anything and you're basically a troll because you're so ignorant and such a spasticated poster (not surprising as you're from Es***)
Immaturity once again. Boxing is meant to be a fun interest, something fun to learn about. Boxing history something of the past too so it can be learned about and own opinions can be formed. How else are people new to a particular boxer meant to learn? Be 'schooled' in a strict way..over an interest? lol It's ok, I can't change your power-complex and life frustrations you may have. I know you don't understand that concept as you're on here 24/7 at your age, so I wont press you on it..

'You really don't get it. Everything you have said regarding my opinions is worthless because I have seen the fights and done the research. You will never learn more about these fighters than what I have told you. '

I appreciate and respect your knowledge and would like to learn from it. But with those who haven't learned a topic yet, you have to understand that I'd need to be able to verify if it's right or wrong - and that I'd be making that judgement taking into account what you said and my own judgement too. I haven't made a single concrete judgement about the guy yet!

Based on a resume and outcome of the 2nd fight, I personally informally call Famechon Harada's daddy - it's just an informal, no-malice statement. You should learn about not having malice man! I call Marquez Pacquiao's daddy, but I LOVE Pacman..You gotta learn to accept that people have different opinions man! It's OK.
- On this basis you will say 'you are wrong, and you don't even know when you are wrong'..

'Why did Jofre obviously beat those guys that way? Spurious you are literally GUESSING!'
- Yes, chill out, getting all frustrated on a forum, again...
You say it was his punching power that helped Jofre beat those guys in that way, that's cool. I was only addressing the point you made by saying punching power isn't necessarily the only way to beat opponents badly..Harada you say has great skills but with these skills expressed to the best of his abilities at the time of the fight, he could only scrape past some of the same opponents and had a harder time than Jofre. This could say a lot about the toughness of the era, or it could end up making me think that Harada just didn't express his skills enough in the fights or that he just isn't as great as I'd like to think he is. Relax.

Sure, I'm not a sound bloke because of wanting to learn on an internet forum and just can't accept what you say (but will respect it) until it's time for me to make a judgement

Yeah, drop out the part that I go to a top university in UK which isn't even in es***, and drop out the part that you're basing 'ignorant, spasticated' on some sort of old mans stereotype about a county in England and a minority, and a county that's actually well off in most ways - just addressing your Es*** comment..you obv haven't been there to know that

Escapism. I laid out the way...educate me and I will listen and because you along with others are a good knowledge source, I'll accept if there are gaps in my knowledge, in a preliminary way - so I may not get the time to verify everything, so will just choose to believe some things based on consensus views - same as every part of life. You guys can probs analyse things to a greater depth too so I'm all eyes and ears when it comes to taking into consideration everyones views. (IMPORTANT POINT THERE). That is the bottom line, Flea. Any judgement I make is on me, not for you to get butthurt about, remember that.

lol I will stop with the funny remarks about 'inferiority/power complexes' etc. it's all just fun and games mate.

Last edited by anj; 01-29-2013 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:29 AM   #102
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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I joke but Harada is ****ing fantastic. Watch the first Kingpetch fight first both because its chronological and its his most complete ass kicking on film. Although both Jofre fights are very good (1 more than 2).
I will start with the Ebihara fights cos it's chronological, but man can't I wait to get into the Jofre fights!

cant find it :'( lol

I'll view it in the evening.

Last edited by anj; 01-29-2013 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:50 AM   #103
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

There's no footage of the Ebihara fight.

Only reason I keep slagging you off is because you are making statements and assumptions. For example 'Harada only scraped past these opponents' because you've seen the scorecards on boxrec.

Apologies if I offended you with the Es*** remark was just a gag. Your university tutelage means nothing as to your application of boxing knowledge so doesn't change my opinion in that respect.

Good luck learning but seems to me you've made your mind up already.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:20 PM   #104
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

Opening salvo.

We measure fighters about 4 ways- longevity, consistency/dominance (two sides of the same coin but still distinct), quality of opposition, and head to head. For the purposes of this leave h2h out as that us by far the most subjective and probably the least useful since it rewards fighters who peak extremely high Evan if only for a few fights (call this the Buster Douglas problem).

Let's look at Jofre and Harada in terms of the first two. In terms of longevity there isn't a contest; Haradas first and last title win took place five years apart. Let's give Harada all the way to the Famechon which I think he won, and that's eight years. Jofres first title win: 1960. His last was 13 years later in 1973. Even If we take of the three years he was retired that is still longer than Haradas entire career. And Jofre kept fighting and winning.

Consistency and dominance are harder to measure as they are subjective but it is the authors opinion that Jofre was Haradas superior in both; not by large margins but by enough. Harada could be argued to be more accomplished as he won undisputed titles in two divisions and nearly nabbed a piece of a third. But Jofre is certainly more constant, not having those pesky losses that Harada does. Jofre was never stopped as Harada was twice and the draws that dot his record are more indicative of the quirky Brazilian scoring system than an inability to best local competition. Jofre wasn't just winning fights; he was knocking the best fighters in. the world out. Let's give them a tie for dominance, Haradas ass whippings being matched by Jofres knockouts. Surely though Jofre was more consistent putting together longer winning streaks. Hell the only man who best Jofre was Harada and even those fights were close. I've got Jofre up a little so far.

Flea counterpoint!

Last edited by LittleRed; 01-29-2013 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:30 PM   #105
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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Opening salvo.

We measure fighters about 4 ways- longevity, consistency/dominance (two sides of the same coin but still distinct), quality of opposition, and head to head. For the purposes of this leave h2h out as that us by far the most subjective and probably the least useful since it rewards fighters who peak extremely high Evan if only for a few fights (call this the Buster Douglas problem).

Let's look at Jofre and Harada in terms of the first two. In terms of longevity there isn't a contest; Haradas first and last title win took place five years apart. Let's give Harada all the way to the Famechon which I think he won, and that's eight years. Jofres first title win: 1960. His last was 13 years later in 1973. Even If we take of the three years he was retired that is still longer than Haradas entire career. And Jofre kept fighting and winning.
When you look at the longevity of these to you've got to take into account lifestyles. I won't say Harada was a party animal but he did have a tendency to blow up between fights. Jofre on the other hand was a vegetarian I think who kept his weight down, kept himself in shape and had a nice 3 years sabbatical which he started when he was still a relatively young man.
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