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Old 01-29-2013, 01:54 PM   #106
lora
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

Jofre for clearly for longevity and consistency.

Jofre for dominance.

Harada clearly for quality of opposition.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:00 PM   #107
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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Originally Posted by AlFrancis View Post
When you look at the longevity of these to you've got to take into account lifestyles. I won't say Harada was a party animal but he did have a tendency to blow up between fights. Jofre on the other hand was a vegetarian I think who kept his weight down, kept himself in shape and had a nice 3 years sabbatical which he started when he was still a relatively young man.
True. But its not Jofres fault Harada liked the parties and the ***y times. And unlike say Duran, Haradas habits cost him.

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Originally Posted by lora View Post
Jofre for clearly for longevity and consistency.

Jofre for dominance.

Harada clearly for quality of opposition.
Yes. I'll address that. Give me some time. Soon.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:02 PM   #108
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

The names Dib and Mathebula shouldn't be a part of any conversation regarding placement on a top 500 ATG list, let alone 50.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:04 PM   #109
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

I need to read this thread, looks interesting.

On Nonito as a top 50...nah, not at all, and I really like the guy, and I give the modern guys high praises, always...
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:10 PM   #110
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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True. But its not Jofres fault Harada liked the parties and the ***y times. And unlike say Duran, Haradas habits cost him.



Yes. I'll address that. Give me some time. Soon.
I'm not blaming Jofre for Harada's habits, I don't even know if Harada was a party animal, I just know that he had trouble keeping his weight down.

I was just making an observation. To be honest, for me, I don't know if longevity should really be an issue.
Some fighters start young and are finished young. Some fighters get out when they know they're past their best, some fighters carry on and it's disastrous and some carry on and get away with it.
Sanchez for example didn't have longevity but he was still a great fighter.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:13 PM   #111
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

LittleRed

I do rate Jofre better for all those things. Hence why Harada's wins over him see him rank so highly for me, knowing what I know of Jofre if he'd never have fought Harada I'd scoff at anyone giving Masahiko a chance to beat him.

Also, Harada's short career is something I give him credit for; to achieve what he did in such few years is an outstanding achievement.

That's why I rank Foreman so high in my HW list; winning the title at his age is enough to see him supercede fighters with more impressive wins on the resume.

There's where I stand and it's a conclusion I only came to only about 18 months ago or so.

As it stands both men sit comfortably in the 30-40 bracket. Harada for being (arguably) the man from fly to feather (even if those reigns were interrupted, hence why he isn't an Armstrong-esque force) and in terms of longevity and K.O losses Ray Leonard ranks very highly for some incredible wins and unfathomable P4P achievements despite less fights and more time out than Harada. Do I rank Harada in the 11-20 bracket as I do Ray?

Nope, but he deserves to be mentioned alongside the Mike Spinks', Emile Griffith's and Carlos Ortiz's (and Eder Jofre's) of that 'bracket'.

IMO of course.

Proceed if you have any qualms with the above and I'll be happy to answer but hopefully you'll see where I'm coming from now.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:14 PM   #112
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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True. But its not Jofres fault Harada liked the parties and the ***y times. And unlike say Duran, Haradas habits cost him.



Yes. I'll address that. Give me some time. Soon.
I feel like Kasparov Vs Deep Blue

You going round the houses to see if you can make me slip up (won't happen) is a bit worrying

Last edited by Flea Man; 01-29-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:16 PM   #113
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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The names Dib and Mathebula shouldn't be a part of any conversation regarding placement on a top 500 ATG list, let alone 50.
I hadn't been there yet but I can almost guarantee the reply will be something like this:

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Originally Posted by anj
Still better than losing to Esparza lol
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:29 PM   #114
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

There's film of Esparza on youtube. A lot of those unsung Mexicans were dangerous opponents for anyone.
I'm sure all the greats had tough fights on the way up sometimes even when they were at their peak.
That loss by Harada doesn't take anything away his standing as far as I'm concerned.
My old fella used to tell me, doesn't matter who you are there is always someone that will give you trouble.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:32 PM   #115
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL View Post
I need to read this thread, looks interesting.

On Nonito as a top 50...nah, not at all, and I really like the guy, and I give the modern guys high praises, always...
You're more qualified than I to talk on the subject. Address every point you disagree with re: Harada>Jofre please mate

A funny thread and a good blend of differing opinions. Enjoy
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:36 PM   #116
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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There's film of Esparza on youtube. A lot of those unsung Mexicans were dangerous opponents for anyone.
I'm sure all the greats had tough fights on the way up sometimes even when they were at their peak.
That loss by Harada doesn't take anything away his standing as far as I'm concerned.
My old fella used to tell me, doesn't matter who you are there is always someone that will give you trouble.
I just tend to think the fact he proved his ability to beat superior stylists in a similar vain showed he could apply himself against the very best.

I don't think these losses denote weakness, though they do show a lack of dedication (at times) which of course he loses points for. Same goes for Duran. We know that on his best day he'd beat Laing, so we don't need to assume that losing to Laing makes him a lesser fighter. It does suggest a lack of consistency at that point of his career, which he'd lose points for (whereas Benny Leonard's incredible run is without reproach)

Further to LittleRed's point about 'we rate fighters by...' I agree but I also think you have to take each guy on a case by case basis.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:51 PM   #117
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

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You're more qualified than I to talk on the subject. Address every point you disagree with re: Harada>Jofre please mate

A funny thread and a good blend of differing opinions. Enjoy
Nah, cīmon, donīt be modest Flea. You know a lot about Jofre, Harada and etc....
I didnīt read it yet btw I need to spare some quality time for ESB fun time.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:54 PM   #118
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

You are the man on Jofre mate and you've taught me SHIT LOADS about him and assuming you haven't told me every piece of info' (and allowing for my stoner memory) I still bow down to your knowledge on the man.

Anything I'm leaving out, anything that is of interest to me, chuck it my way please.

First, read the thread and see what you think. I know you hold Harada highly yourself so will be interesting to get your views.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:04 PM   #119
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

Currently watching Harada-Kingpetch 1..
..Woah
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:05 PM   #120
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Default Re: Nonito donaire, a top 50 atg?

Enjoy
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