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View Poll Results: Holy's record against the listed greats prime for prime
10-0 0 0%
9-1 0 0%
8-2 1 3.85%
7-3 9 34.62%
6-4 6 23.08%
5-5 6 23.08%
4-6 0 0%
3-7 2 7.69%
2-8 2 7.69%
wins 1 or 0 losing the rest. 0 0%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-29-2013, 11:26 AM   #1
lufcrazy
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Default Holyfield as a h2h force?

I'm starting to grow my appreciation of Holy and his fighting skills. He was fairly complete and his chin seemed to compensate his not too great defensive skills.

He was big enough to compete with the superheavyweights but small enough to maintain the speed and mobility of the cruiser weight guys.

I had him drawing the rematch with Bowe upon most recent viewing (had it a holy victory first time I saw it) and losing the rematch with Lewis 7-5. I also had him nicking the Moorer fight by a point.

But take a prime holy (however you wanna define him) against prime versions of the following and how well do you think he does?

Wlad
Vitali
Lewis
Tyson
Holmes
Foreman
Ali
Marciano
Dempsey
Johnson

How well do you think he does?

I'll post a poll for the record you think he'd achieve in one off fights with these guys.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

I think Holyfield is one of the guys I rank higher H2H than I do overall (although he is top 10 for me there as well.). I was one of those hoping he would fight Tyson after the Dokes fight, but it never came off....and then later Tyson pulled out and then was supposed to fight him after buster...but we all know how that went down..I always felt that Holy had his number even years before they met.

Wlad- I think this would be a super close fight, but one that Holy would nip 7-5 for me although a draw/SD type of outcome wouldn't surprise me either.

Vitali- In spite of Vitali's stellar rounds won record that mendoza is always droning on about, I don't think his skill level has ever wowwed me like wlad's (words I never thought I would utter)..and Holy takes this one 8-4

Lewis- Again I think Holy was durable enough to hang w/ lewis and quick/skilled enough to hold his own w/ Lennox and like him 7-5

Tyson- Holyfield stops him in the 10th

Holmes- I am going against my other picks and like Holmes to take a nice decision 8-4 or so in this one.

Foreman- I like Holyfield to withstand the power of George, and take a solid 8-4 decision

Ali- I am not the typical Ali picker who picks him against everyone else (there are a few I pick to beat him Frazier, Norton, Holmes, Marciano), but I do like him against Holyfield either 7-5 or 9-6 depending upon rounds.

Marciano- I have a hard time with Holy/Frazier/Marciano in any fight and my first inkling is draw, but since that is not a vote option....I like Holy over 12 and rocky over 15.

Dempsey- I like Holyfield to take a decision in this one (no not because he is black, seamus), but it might be closer than some will agree with. Holy 7-5

Johnson- Wow this a tough one for me as I can see both guys winning it....feeling the need to fall off of the fence I will take Johnson by a narrow margin.

So 6-3-1 for me...either 6-4 or 7-3 depending upon how I decide to vote the Marciano fight.
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:50 AM   #3
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

I voted 7-3, but am not sure I agree with me!
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:59 PM   #4
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Wlad- Holyfield would exploit his predictable 1-2 attack in a matter of rounds and Wlads low level of punch resistance on top of poor stamina getting sucked out every minute of every round would lead to a mid fight tko.

Vitali- This would be mostly fought on the inside with Holyfield racking up the points to a UD win. His record is so shit that its difficult to judge how he does h2h.

Lewis- Faster, sharper, fitter Evander scores a UD win.

Holmes- Young Holmes has the legs to outbox Holyfield to a MD

Tyson- Tyson's speed, power and explosiveness is far too much for his weak defence and knocks him out mid- late rounds.

Marciano- Rock lessens the pop of his punches even more with brutal body shots and beats him down to a late tko or UD victory.

Ali- Ali points win.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:03 PM   #5
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Wlad - holyfield by ko, i think wlad could outbox holyfield better than any other with his saftey first style, but he isnt going to keep holyfields accurate combinations of him all night.

Vitali - holyfield decision/possible cuts stoppage, this would be a great match, however if lewis could out brawl vitali, then holyfield certainly could.

Lewis - lewis very close decision, although anything less from lewis's best could mean a holufield ko or decision, and wouldnt suprise me if holyfield won

Tyson - holyfield decison, could take his shots and dish some back, much better than mike 5+ rounds

Holmes - holmes close decision, better boxer and could fight decently, not to metion IMO the best heavyweight jab,

Foreman - holyfield decision, much better stamina, and could pull a stopage against a tired foreman

Ali - ali decision, would trouble holyfield with his movement, jab and combos, but holy will have his moments

Marciano - holyfield close decision, rocky is a legend and exeptional fro his times, but a bit to small to trouble holyfield, but that work rate would win him some rounds, might favour rocky over 15

Dempsey - holyfield comfortable decision

Johnson - gonna say holyfield decision

usually dont rate many old timers H2H btw
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:16 PM   #6
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

He's an absolute phenomenon, easily the most underrated HW around here. Perhaps the best stamina in HW history, and 1 of the best technicians, people forget he didn't lose until he was, what 32? And past his best

Wlad - Holyfield's pressure could win him it or Wlad wins with his jab

50-50

Vitali - Holyfield would work his way inside where Vitali is technically vunerable. Vitali would win rounds with his jab, Holyfield is more athletic in his prime though

Holy UD

Lewis - Lennox had a competitive fight, could go either way with a Holyfield with much more stamina but lean towards Lennox by a fraction - Lennox SD

Tyson - he beat him didn't he? Prime for prime is closer but I have to go with Holyfield

Holmes - 50-50, Holmes jab and speed could come out on top or Holyfield's workrate down the stretch

Foreman - Holyfield is too skilled for Foreman

Ali - close fight but Ali UD

Marciano - Holyfield is quicker, longer/taller/heavier, and more skilled. Holy UD

Dempsey - if you can beat Tyson, you beat Dempsey easier

Johnson - too much workrate for Johnson

Overall 2 losses and 2 50-50s, make it 6-7 wins out of 10
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:38 PM   #7
lufcrazy
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I'm starting to grow my appreciation of Holy and his fighting skills. He was fairly complete and his chin seemed to compensate his not too great defensive skills.

He was big enough to compete with the superheavyweights but small enough to maintain the speed and mobility of the cruiser weight guys.

I had him drawing the rematch with Bowe upon most recent viewing (had it a holy victory first time I saw it) and losing the rematch with Lewis 7-5. I also had him nicking the Moorer fight by a point.

But take a prime holy (however you wanna define him) against prime versions of the following and how well do you think he does?

Wlad
Vitali
Lewis
Tyson
Holmes
Foreman
Ali
Marciano
Dempsey
Johnson

How well do you think he does?

I'll post a poll for the record you think he'd achieve in one off fights with these guys.
Just rewatched him against Bowe in the rematch and had him winning. Also rewatched him against Moorer and had him losing
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Holyfield is painful to rank H2H as he didn't have a 'prime' IMO.

The smaller, faster HW version was so sharp, for example when he blasted Buster The Blob. But could anyone do one better than Cooper? And his first loss was to Bowe so again, not infallible (who is)

When he beat Tyson he had packed on the weight, he was stronger and canny, but he was slower of hand and foot.

I think his best performance and win is Bowe II, but it's marred. It took him two attempts to beat Moorer, he fell to pieces against Blwe in the 3rd fight.

He was 'roiding his tits off.

I rank him very, very highly for all-round ability but he never had all these attributes at the same time. I find it hard to rank him in this respect but I'll take the younger Holy, big enough, quick enough, varied enough, resilient enough.

And it's the Holy of the first Bowe fight, a losing effort, that I come up with.

Anyone agree that Evander's 'prime' is hard to discern for these reasons?
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Why is Vitali in the list for?!?

Anyway, I'm certain he'd beat Johnson and Dempsey.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:04 PM   #10
lufcrazy
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Why is Vitali in the list for?!?

Anyway, I'm certain he'd beat Johnson and Dempsey.
just wantied a varied list of opponents.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:06 PM   #11
lufcrazy
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

I have his prime from the qawi rematch to the bowe rematch. Moorer was definitely the end of his prime by any measure.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:11 PM   #12
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

6-4
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:12 PM   #13
Flea Man
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
just wantied a varied list of opponents.
Yeah but you said 'against these greats' I thought must've misread.

That's my point though. Was he past his best against Moorer? Bowe III you'd have thought so. But then he beat Moorer, did the unthinkable against Tyson (at the time it was, I remember) and even came back to give Lewis hassle after he'd been beaten by him.

He was a different shape after a while. A different fighter essentially. That's my point, which one do you take? Each one has attributes they can bring in to different fights IMO.

Anyway, he was 'roiding his nut off I'm sure but he was on the decline (I do agree with that) and a fair few monsters of the time may well have been.

I also love Evander to bits so give him as much leeway as I possibly can
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:24 PM   #14
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I'm starting to grow my appreciation of Holy and his fighting skills.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
He's an absolute phenomenon, easily the most underrated HW around here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Holyfield is painful to rank H2H as he didn't have a 'prime' IMO.

The smaller, faster HW version was so sharp, for example when he blasted Buster The Blob. But could anyone do one better than Cooper? And his first loss was to Bowe so again, not infallible (who is)

When he beat Tyson he had packed on the weight, he was stronger and canny, but he was slower of hand and foot.

I think his best performance and win is Bowe II, but it's marred. It took him two attempts to beat Moorer, he fell to pieces against Blwe in the 3rd fight.

He was 'roiding his tits off.

I rank him very, very highly for all-round ability but he never had all these attributes at the same time. I find it hard to rank him in this respect but I'll take the younger Holy, big enough, quick enough, varied enough, resilient enough.

And it's the Holy of the first Bowe fight, a losing effort, that I come up with.

Anyone agree that Evander's 'prime' is hard to discern for these reasons?
His prime seems fairly obvious to me; he looked at his best at cruiserweight (especially towards the end of his reign) & his early HW career, 1987-1991 were his peak years imo.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I have his prime from the qawi rematch to the bowe rematch. Moorer was definitely the end of his prime by any measure.
I'd say he was already slowing down a bit by the time he fought Bowe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Was he past his best against Moorer?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
That's my point, which one do you take?
Younger Hopkins vs Older Hopkins.

Or something like that.
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