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Old 01-28-2013, 06:05 PM   #196
KuRuPT
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

I didn't have Taylor beating him twice.. shit.. I didn't even have him beating him once.
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Old 01-28-2013, 06:05 PM   #197
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

I had Taylor winning the first and Hopkins the 2nd. Not shocking that an ageing champ' would lose to a faster, younger athletic fighter, even if that was all the fighter had.
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Old 01-28-2013, 07:45 PM   #198
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Hopkins was a pretty uninspiring middle those last years there.He'd have been worked over by someone and lost the title earlier had their been real talent around.Those Taylor fights were like watching Eubank vs Amaral or schommer.

I think the Joppy fight was the last time he looked good and Joppy never looked quite the same after the Tito fight(not that i think he'd do too well against Nard at any point).He had struggled to contain even the slug slow Eastman by then.Even in his prime he was an average protected champ imo.No defence, no real technical skill, just some flashy combo's, but couldn't really brawl or slug well either.

Tito was definitely a legit capable middle though.I'd agree it's unfair of anyone downplaying Hopkins win over him on grounds of size.Best to leave that criticism to Oscar at 160.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:15 PM   #199
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Originally Posted by Nightcrawler View Post
good stuff flea he was a MASSIVE welter and i tend to rate joppy slightly higher than many of here. joppy was, at one time not too far before the fight, arguably one of the top 2 middleweights in the world. considering his skill and talent, tito had no business being dominated so thoroughly. but he was
I agree with this whole heartedly. I am not ashamed to admit that I was a Joppy fan and thought he had a good chance of beating both Trinidad and Hopkins.
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:21 PM   #200
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Remember Joppy's face after the Hopkins fight? Not sure i've ever seen a fighter swell up like that before and though a wide loss and rough bout on the inside it wasn't as if it was a particularly brutal fight.It was like he had taken some sort of hideous allergic reaction to Hopkins rubbiing his head against him on the inside
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Old 01-28-2013, 08:33 PM   #201
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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It wasn't even normal swelling like round the inside edges of the orbital bone. Forehead, cheeks and jaw for Joppy. Are we sure this wasn't an allergic reaction to an ointment or something?
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:12 PM   #202
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Id give a slight edge to Hagler over Monzon based on his pretitle body of work. He went to Philly and took on the best Middleweights there during a vicious era of middleweights.

Its close.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:39 PM   #203
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Originally Posted by Theron View Post
I made a thread asking about a fantasy fight about Monzon vs Hagler but a lot of people seemed to disagree with me that Harry Greb was the greatest Middleweight of all time which i definatley think he is, if he's not who is to you?

Here was the results from the survey we did a few years ago:

1. 736 Carlos Monzon (13)
2. 718 Harry Greb (15)
3. 606 Marvin Hagler (8 )
4. 513 Sugar Ray Robinson (5)
5. 214 Bernard Hopkins
6. 155 Bob Fitzsimmons (2)
7. 140 Charles Burley
8. 121 Stanley Ketchel
9. 120 Mickey Walker
10. 116 Dick Tiger


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Old 01-28-2013, 11:57 PM   #204
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Hello Geoff...get Hopkins da fukk off that list, NOW
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:09 AM   #205
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Hello Geoff...get Hopkins da fukk off that list, NOW
Why? I think he has a strong case for #5, and I myself had him fifth on my list.

How would your Top 10 look? And where would you rate Bernard?
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:15 AM   #206
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

And as for the list, I can't cheat the results!



They were what they were.

As for Hopkins, he was included on 39 out of 45 lists in the Top 10, and 14 of those 39 had him Top 5.

Personally, I think #5 is exactly where he belongs.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:19 AM   #207
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

I wouldn't have him anywhere near the top 10, that's for sure. Now get him out of there
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:53 AM   #208
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Old 01-29-2013, 12:31 PM   #209
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

Again

just don't see greb as the best MW in history.. He didn't do enough and beat enough quality in that division to be considered so. It's like saying Duran is a better Welterweight than SRL.. Because he has some good wins there... and is the better p4p fighter.. than by some of your standards is lower and upper weight jump victories matter in a division that he didn't fight in as much.. That makes ZERO sense. Greb did his best work at LHW.. PERIOD. Conflating what he could've done at MW with what he did at LWH is faulty reasoning and not logical.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:38 PM   #210
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Default Re: Greatest Middleweight once and for all- Greb? Monzon? Hagler?

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Originally Posted by KuRuPT View Post
Again

just don't see greb as the best MW in history.. He didn't do enough and beat enough quality in that division to be considered so. It's like saying Duran is a better Welterweight than SRL.. Because he has some good wins there... and is the better p4p fighter.. than by some of your standards is lower and upper weight jump victories matter in a division that he didn't fight in as much.. That makes ZERO sense. Greb did his best work at LHW.. PERIOD. Conflating what he could've done at MW with what he did at LWH is faulty reasoning and not logical.
Outside of possibly Robinson who has more quality wins at middleweight than Greb?

Its my understanding that he fought a lot of matches at higher weights but he also fought plenty against great fighters at middleweight. In fact at a middleweight limit that is two pounds lighter than it is today in an era of same day weigh ins.
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