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View Poll Results: Holy's record against the listed greats prime for prime
10-0 0 0%
9-1 0 0%
8-2 1 3.85%
7-3 9 34.62%
6-4 6 23.08%
5-5 6 23.08%
4-6 0 0%
3-7 2 7.69%
2-8 2 7.69%
wins 1 or 0 losing the rest. 0 0%
Voters: 26. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-29-2013, 03:40 PM   #16
Flea Man
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

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Originally Posted by DrMo View Post




His prime seems fairly obvious to me; he looked at his best at cruiserweight (especially towards the end of his reign) & his early HW career, 1987-1991 were his peak years imo.
Okay. That version would get blown away by Foreman, Liston, would lose a decision to Frazier, probably lose to Ali.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:57 PM   #17
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

All jokes aside I'd give a chance against anyone and everyone.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

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Okay. That version would get blown away by Foreman, Liston, would lose a decision to Frazier, probably lose to Ali.
I think the 96-97 vintage of Holy would fare better against the more powerful guys like Liston & Foreman, but do worse than the younger Holy against the likes of Ali & Holmes
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

That's EXACTLY what I'm saying Mo!

We've spoke about this many times over the years mate. You know how highly I rate Holyfield.

However I'm going with the consensus 'best' Holy around the time of the Douglas fight. I'm still confident with giving him at least a 40% chance of the win against anyone. Too much skill, speed, accuracy, stylistic versatility and resilience not to.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I'm starting to grow my appreciation of Holy and his fighting skills. He was fairly complete and his chin seemed to compensate his not too great defensive skills.

He was big enough to compete with the superheavyweights but small enough to maintain the speed and mobility of the cruiser weight guys.

I had him drawing the rematch with Bowe upon most recent viewing (had it a holy victory first time I saw it) and losing the rematch with Lewis 7-5. I also had him nicking the Moorer fight by a point.

But take a prime holy (however you wanna define him) against prime versions of the following and how well do you think he does?

Wlad
Vitali
Lewis
Tyson
Holmes
Foreman
Ali
Marciano
Dempsey
Johnson

How well do you think he does?

I'll post a poll for the record you think he'd achieve in one off fights with these guys.
I got Evander beating Wlad, Vitali, Tyson, Dempsey, and Johnson.

I got him losing to Lewis, Holmes, Foreman, Ali, and Marciano.

Interstingly, I have all of the fights going the distance.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
That's EXACTLY what I'm saying Mo!

We've spoke about this many times over the years mate. You know how highly I rate Holyfield.

However I'm going with the consensus 'best' Holy around the time of the Douglas fight. I'm still confident with giving him at least a 40% chance of the win against anyone. Too much skill, speed, accuracy, stylistic versatility and resilience not to.


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Old 01-29-2013, 04:23 PM   #22
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

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Yeah but you said 'against these greats' I thought must've misread.

That's my point though. Was he past his best against Moorer? Bowe III you'd have thought so. But then he beat Moorer, did the unthinkable against Tyson (at the time it was, I remember) and even came back to give Lewis hassle after he'd been beaten by him.

He was a different shape after a while. A different fighter essentially. That's my point, which one do you take? Each one has attributes they can bring in to different fights IMO.

Anyway, he was 'roiding his nut off I'm sure but he was on the decline (I do agree with that) and a fair few monsters of the time may well have been.

I also love Evander to bits so give him as much leeway as I possibly can
Meh great is ambiguos some call him great some dont.

Was holy better at anything than previous against Tyson though?
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

I think he beats the following: vitali, wlad, holmes(!), Johnson, marciano, foreman, Dempsey.

I think he loses to Lewis, Ali, Tyson (!).

I reckon my only controversial picks might be the victory over Holmes and the loss to Tyson.

Against Holmes I think he could actually outjab him at times, his jab isn't as good but he's quicker on hand and feet. When he's bouncing around pumping his jab not many in history are gonna land first. I also think holy is better at timing the counter right hand he had a nack of getting opponents walking onto it. I also think holy can mix his punches better in close. I'm basically saying I think that as complete as Holmes was, Holy was just that bit better. Given the fighting spirit of both this will end up being a war with back and forth head snapping. I just think holy has the edge as he'll get his shots off first more often than not.

Against Tyson my pick is purely down to how highly I rate the way Tyson delivers his power shots. Holy is there to be hit and anyone there to be hit is gonna lose to Tyson imo unless they can deliver their power punches even better and Louis aside i can think of noone who can.

quite importantly I think his frame is completely overlooked. He was small in his era but any era before, 6'2 and 215 solid muscle, he's considered a giant. I think a misconception of him being a small heavyweight is just that, a misconception.

Maybe everyone else has always seen holy as this h2h beast but I know I sure didnt. However I've watched quite a lot of him tonight from earlier blistering combinations to pure will power and heart. He is a great great fighter. Beating guys like Rahman and Ruiz and Valuev this century is just icing on the cake.
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Old 01-29-2013, 05:21 PM   #24
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

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Originally Posted by DrMo View Post


BORKED
I'm getting BORKED (on iPhone) so what is it mayne?
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

He would give every heavyweight to ever live big problems.

I probably have him top 5 as far as h2h'ness goes, after Lewis, Ali, Tyson, Holmes. Maybe even before Holmes.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:46 PM   #26
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

Ali beats him, definitely.

Louis beats him, probably.

Lewis and Holmes I'd pick to edge him, but just, and not with much confidence in either pick. You'd have to say Bowe as well, but only on that rare 'best form' of Riddick's.

At worst, he's 50/50 with everyone else, and not at all an easy go for anyone.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:23 AM   #27
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

I agree he causes everyone problems.

Frame wise he's small enough to have top class speed and mobility yet big enough to compete with the big boys.

he also has the power to make anyone respect him I believe.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:37 AM   #28
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

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I agree he causes everyone problems.

Frame wise he's small enough to have top class speed and mobility yet big enough to compete with the big boys.

he also has the power to make anyone respect him I believe.
As Boxed Ears described him, "he's a near-perfect mix of technical know-how and nasty mother****er."

You don't have an easy night with that, no matter who you are.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:46 AM   #29
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

I voted 6-4, but god only knows really.
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:08 AM   #30
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Default Re: Holyfield as a h2h force?

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As Boxed Ears described him, "he's a near-perfect mix of technical know-how and nasty mother****er."

You don't have an easy night with that, no matter who you are.
I really like where this thread just went.
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