Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-29-2013, 06:43 PM   #46
thesmokingm
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,071
vCash: 5268
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pimp C View Post
Armstrong is a disgrace, I always suspected him of cheating. I doubt he will get anything back he's being threatened from law suits all over the place and might even end up in jail when it's all said in done. The guy is done and hated here.

I often wonder how much ppl really know about the doping system? You seem to really hate Armstrong but he's a product of his generation. I can respect ppl who hate on him on a base level, but really yall don't know what's going on. Everyone in that era doped, everyone.

Before you go off the edge, you should consider that in that generation everyone doped, even those who thought they were clean! The systems that are now championing their cleanliness were once full of cheats.

So who really is at fault for the Armstrongs of today?

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
thesmokingm is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 01-29-2013, 07:12 PM   #47
Pimp C
Houston VS Everybody
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 34,998
vCash: 138
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesmokingm View Post
I often wonder how much ppl really know about the doping system? You seem to really hate Armstrong but he's a product of his generation. I can respect ppl who hate on him on a base level, but really yall don't know what's going on. Everyone in that era doped, everyone.

Before you go off the edge, you should consider that in that generation everyone doped, even those who thought they were clean! The systems that are now championing their cleanliness were once full of cheats.

So who really is at fault for the Armstrongs of today?

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
You're right pretty much everyone in cycling cheated, he was just doing what everyone else was doing. My biggest problem is with the way he acted when people accused him and the way he tried to destroy their lives with law suits and other things. Armstrong was really nasty and during all of this when he knew all along they were telling the truth.
Pimp C is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 08:11 PM   #48
kmac
On permanent vacation
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,407
vCash: 683
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Left View Post
Steriod is rife in American sports, boxing in particualr. Almost every American superstar boxer of the past 20 years has been on PEDs. Mosley, Holyfield, Tarver, RJJ, Toney.... the list is endless.

In the UK, the sense of fairplay is still very strong. It is not like American - win at all costs or be forgotton about. When Dwain Chambers was caught doping the UK althetic commitee banned him for life and it was only the threat of being sued and the ruling of the World athletic body that allowed him to compete again.

Th fact that Americans even rate fighters like RJJ, Mosley, Holyfield, Toney, Tarver etc just sums it all up. In the UK these guys would be outcasts and not given the time of day by anyone.
haha!! classic post! i almost pissed myself.
kmac is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:29 PM   #49
Mind Reader
RIP Captain Phil
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 6,243
vCash: 760
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by juice20 View Post
PEDs are an international problem. Sports culture in certain countries, mainly ex soviet bloc, had them ingrained into the system (some still do as evidenced by olympic scandals etc). Legalities are different from country to country as well, which also makes obtaining them easier in some countries outside of North America. It seems bigger in the US because, quite frankly, the biggest and most lucrative sports leagues on the planet are based there, and reaching the top level of sport, to secure a career, income, the ability to take care of people monetarily, and just plain ego causes a lot of athletes to go that route.....but it is not a strictly an american problem.
Thank you juice.

Great post from someone who has knowledge on PEDs...

To think that it is just an American problem is bullshit, anyone who thinks that certainly has agenda behind their argument. Boxing has been full of PEDs world wide for decades.. Those who think otherwise or think it has to do with nationality are the ones living in the clouds.
Mind Reader is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 09:53 PM   #50
FloydPatterson
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 3,309
vCash: 976
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

This thread is a European jerkfest
FloydPatterson is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 10:10 PM   #51
BlueBottle
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 538
vCash: 500
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Well the reason for this trend in American boxing should not be any different than for other American sports. Many baseball players have said they do it to keep up with the competition and that they feel everyone does it. The stakes are high for them as their careers are short.
BlueBottle is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 10:18 PM   #52
H .
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,418
vCash: 218
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

well, the US is a good size country, so there will probably be more athletes to catch with ped's than the smaller countries. but wait, is that answer too obvious? oh, it's ESB. Hail Froch!
H . is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2013, 10:35 PM   #53
dealt_with
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,187
vCash: 500
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Good thread, something with a bit of thought in it which is a change from the usual crap on here. I believe it is primarily a US thing these days, it's the culture of winning at all costs. That's where the big money is and where athletes feel they need every advantage. That's where unqualified guys like Conte set up shop to make some money. There's no scientific evidence for the efficacy of PED's, athletes don't know this and just assume they'll get an advantage based on anecdotes. This Gamboa situation.. he thought he was moving up to face Rios so maybe he thought he had to put on some mass. That would be the only reason for taking the things he's alleged to have taken. As an amateur he was the same explosive athlete so it'd be shame if he felt the need to take the stuff. Gamboa looked stiff and bloated in his last fight, I can't help but wonder if that has something to do with this emerging story..
dealt_with is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 05:40 AM   #54
pecho26
ESB Lurker
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 1,068
vCash: 515
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ELECTRIC GURU View Post
This is a tremendous post, giving ESB a revealing insight into the positive steps being taken in British sport to rid our nations of PED cheating disgraces from representing us.
Good luck with that.It will never happen.
PEDs will always be in profesional sports be that of darts or boxing.
pecho26 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 06:12 AM   #55
perspicacity
Raising The Bar
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The Nags Head
Posts: 2,461
vCash: 185000
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

IMO the US is most likely the home of drugs cheats in boxing. I base this opinion on the fact it is where traditionally more money is involved.

As a Brit it makes you wonder if over the years our guys have been going out there with the odds tilted against them in more ways than one.

Also, you have to wonder if this could be a reason US fighters have glass passports and rarely travel.
perspicacity is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 06:31 AM   #56
kingstonbear
Late Replacement
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 90
vCash: 500
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markq View Post
We Americans hold our athletes to a higher standard. We'll stand behind them but if they're ever found to be a cheat, they get discarded like trash like Lance, Barry Bonds ... In America, catching someone cheating is big news and it gets reported. In other countries, catching someone and reporting it may likely be the death of you. Do you think anyone will report Pacquiao cheating in Southern Philippines? Journalists get killed just for reporting unbiased news there. Anybody with a brain has to know there's equal if not higher chance of using it to make more $ in impoverished countries.
What about Alex Rodriguez? Carl Lewis? lauded by US press and fans alike even though they've failed drug test?
kingstonbear is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 07:44 AM   #57
juice20
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Helping OJ find the "real" killers
Posts: 261
vCash: 430
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post
There's no scientific evidence for the efficacy of PED's, athletes don't know this and just assume they'll get an advantage based on anecdotes...
I know what you're hinting at here.....most PEDs are absolutely effective, and absolutely give an athlete an edge. That is undeniable, and is beyond proven through science; but because of individuality in the athletes, differing natural talent levels and differing abilities to continue developing physically beyond a certain point, it is difficult to quantify the exact measure of advantage gained from individual to individual. They are absolutely effective, but individual base talent and physical ability is the x factor, not the drugs.
juice20 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 08:30 AM   #58
RememberingC.S.
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,885
vCash: 410
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

No, i don't think usa boxers Peds particularly... In the past, that probably was the case, but actually, keep in mind, not less than 85-90% of professional boxers PEDS in some way, if you don't think that way, you're just naive or in denial; sure, there have been some particularly blatant cases, but they are not particularly significative (Evander Holyfield caught buying PEDS on internet under the fake identity of... Evan Field!! XD XD so naive...) There are things worst than peds, though, for example corrupted referees/judges/doctors: because while two boxers can peds in the same way, and so being equally advantaged, judges can still **** you up in every way possible, and we see this kind of things even actually; usa is particularly prone to cheat in that kind of ways to favour their athletes, and the only reason some boxers accept to still fight there is just the moneys; in this kind of things, usa is gretly responsible for the amount of general corruption present in every level of this sport.
RememberingC.S. is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 10:40 AM   #59
dealt_with
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,187
vCash: 500
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by juice20 View Post
I know what you're hinting at here.....most PEDs are absolutely effective, and absolutely give an athlete an edge. That is undeniable, and is beyond proven through science; but because of individuality in the athletes, differing natural talent levels and differing abilities to continue developing physically beyond a certain point, it is difficult to quantify the exact measure of advantage gained from individual to individual. They are absolutely effective, but individual base talent and physical ability is the x factor, not the drugs.
No I'm not, there is no good scientific evidence for the efficacy of most PED's. That doesn't mean that they're not effective but the science we have doesn't show that. Research it yourself. The other things you're saying I agree with. You'll notice that all these names who have made money selling banned drugs to athletes lack any real qualifications. My belief is that the placebo effect is the big advantage in play when athletes take PED's, the naughtier it is the more they believe it will give them an advantage. You have athletes that swear by power bands as well, the placebo effect can be very strong and athletes tend to be very susceptible to it.
dealt_with is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2013, 10:53 AM   #60
ELECTRIC GURU
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 614
vCash: 500
Default Re: PED use in boxing - Is it particularly an American based problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Left View Post
Steriod is rife in American sports, boxing in particualr. Almost every American superstar boxer of the past 20 years has been on PEDs. Mosley, Holyfield, Tarver, RJJ, Toney.... the list is endless.

In the UK, the sense of fairplay is still very strong. It is not like American - win at all costs or be forgotton about. When Dwain Chambers was caught doping the UK althetic commitee banned him for life and it was only the threat of being sued and the ruling of the World athletic body that allowed him to compete again.

Th fact that Americans even rate fighters like RJJ, Mosley, Holyfield, Toney, Tarver etc just sums it all up. In the UK these guys would be outcasts and not given the time of day by anyone.
Terrific post Big Left, the likes of Mosley, Holyfield, Jones, and Toney are a disgrace to the sport, its such a shame that random testing wasn't around 365 days a year whilst these guys were fighting, the truth is that they were barely tested and were still guilty of disgracing the sport.

Theres so many american based guys in that 90s and 2000s era that would have been busted big time but the testing in professional american bouts never kicked in till after 2000 and these guys were given free reign to cheat as they pleased. Even when they were found guilty, the sporting governing bodies and promoters in America were happy to cover the cheating up and pretend it never happenned.
ELECTRIC GURU is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013