Liston v Holyfield

[lufcrazy]

would have put him on my poll but felt it could do a thread of it's own

Liston:
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vs

Holyfield:
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the two men on their greatest nights against each other, who you got?

[PowerPuncher]

Holyfield, quicker, fitter, better footwork, much tougher with a much bigger heart, not much of a size disadvantage if any. Liston may have more power, a better jab maybe

[Theron]

Listons prime and best was the 2 Cleveland Williams fights
Holyfield couldnt hit nearly as hard as Williams or throw power combination as quick and hard as he did
Liston had a much much better jab and would keep Holyfield off balance the whole fight
And his power was great in both his right and left so i see that working in favour of Liston as well being a two handed puncher that can throw straight and had great boxing skills.

[Theron]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Holyfield, quicker, fitter, better footwork, much tougher with a much bigger heart, not much of a size disadvantage if any. Liston may have more power, a better jab maybe

Yeah maybe just maybe Liston has a better jab than Holyfield... ?

[ETM]

Liston had that brutal leftjab. It carried alot of power and stunned his opponents for the folllow up assault.

Holyfield could be bothered by fighters with a strong jab. Bowe, Lewis, Moorer. Even Big George Foreman was able to consistanltly find Holyfield with his big left jab. He just didnt have the reflexes to follow up. Liston would have no such problem.

Liston by decision.

[Theron]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Holyfield, quicker, fitter, better footwork, much tougher with a much bigger heart, not much of a size disadvantage if any. Liston may have more power, a better jab maybe

Liston, Stronger, harder puncher, throws his right straight and is probably harder than Bowes and has a left hook from hell to add to that, long hard jab, underrated boxing skills, great footwork as well,

Holyfields tendancy to fight back when hit hard would ultimatley make this fight a KO win for Sonny instead of a Decision, if Holyifeld tries to fight back after being stung he is going to get wrecked as soon as he tries to go for him and if he gets on the inside he will be even more screwed

[PowerPuncher]

Originally Posted by Theron

Liston, Stronger, harder puncher, throws his right straight and is probably harder than Bowes and has a left hook from hell to add to that, long hard jab, underrated boxing skills, great footwork as well,

Holyfields tendancy to fight back when hit hard would ultimatley make this fight a KO win for Sonny instead of a Decision, if Holyifeld tries to fight back after being stung he is going to get wrecked as soon as he tries to go for him and if he gets on the inside he will be even more screwed

By that logic more proven punchers like Tyson, Lennox and Bowe should have KO'd Holyfield. If Bowe, Lewis and Tyson can't stop you, the older smaller weaker less athletic Liston won't

What makes Liston strong and power? Pushing around and knocking 180lb men, his power is not proven against heavier, stronger, bigger men bar Cleveland Williams who has no real top wins himself

Originally Posted by Theron

Yeah maybe just maybe Liston has a better jab than Holyfield... ?

Holyfield has a good jab of his own and he combines with quick footwork where as Liston plods around. Standing still and plodding negates the quality of your punches even if the punches themselves are technically very good

[PhillyPhan69]

Holyfield by comfortable decision or possibly a late stoppage....

[ticar]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

Holyfield, quicker, fitter, better footwork, much tougher with a much bigger heart, not much of a size disadvantage if any. Liston may have more power, a better jab maybe

it doesn't look when you look at the numbers,but i think there is a size advantage.maybe not like with lewis,that being cause liston is shorter
holy juiced hard with roids and hgh probably,and was 220 in his 30s
liston was 200 + as a teenager on prison food
liston obviously has a bigger frame,and with holy cheating regime,would be obviously bigger and stronger
i think liston would win,lewis beat him,and i take liston as a good outside fighter like lewis,and a better infighter.
lufcrazy,what is with you and this liston threads,are you starting to appreciate liston h2h ability?

[Longhhorn71]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

By that logic more proven punchers like Tyson, Lennox and Bowe should have KO'd Holyfield. If Bowe, Lewis and Tyson can't stop you, the older smaller weaker less athletic Liston won't

What makes Liston strong and power? Pushing around and knocking 180lb men, his power is not proven against heavier, stronger, bigger men bar Cleveland Williams who has no real top wins himself



Holyfield has a good jab of his own and he combines with quick footwork where as Liston plods around. Standing still and plodding negates the quality of your punches even if the punches themselves are technically very good

Middleweight James Toney tko'ed Holyfield.....people sometimes forget that.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by ticar

it doesn't look when you look at the numbers,but i think there is a size advantage.maybe not like with lewis,that being cause liston is shorter
holy juiced hard with roids and hgh probably,and was 220 in his 30s
liston was 200 + as a teenager on prison food
liston obviously has a bigger frame,and with holy cheating regime,would be obviously bigger and stronger
i think liston would win,lewis beat him,and i take liston as a good outside fighter like lewis,and a better infighter.
lufcrazy,what is with you and this liston threads,are you starting to appreciate liston h2h ability?

Oddly enough yes. Two days ago he sat outside my top 15. I then decided he deserved a bit more credit for his resume (cleaning out the top 5) and this knocked him into my next tier.

Within a tier I split on h2h and I found myself placing liston above nearly everyone else in that tier which saw him enter my top 10 for the first time in ages.

I haven't picked here but I'm leaning towards Holy. However when faced with the choice between Liston and Wlad/Frazier/Langford/Dempsey it seemed like a no brained after comparing film of them.

[Theron]

Originally Posted by PowerPuncher

By that logic more proven punchers like Tyson, Lennox and Bowe should have KO'd Holyfield. If Bowe, Lewis and Tyson can't stop you, the older smaller weaker less athletic Liston won't

What makes Liston strong and power? Pushing around and knocking 180lb men, his power is not proven against heavier, stronger, bigger men bar Cleveland Williams who has no real top wins himself

Wait so your implying that Holyfield was a heavy big strong guy more so than Cleveland Williams...c'mon
Oh yeah lets just bar the fight in which he proved he could for some reason?... what the fuck, Why should we just ignore the fight that proves what i said so it can help your argument thats unbelievably retarded, Tyson was a shell and was going on intimidation, and c'mon you could see Bowes overhand right coming a mile away he didnt throw it straight like Sonny did. His strength is not proven against bigger men? really, would you consider George Foreman heavy and strong or maybe we should bar him because itll help my argument , George was young and Liston was old and shot in sparring and he could handle George and stand up to him, and if i remember correctly most people consider George to be one of the physically strongest boxers ever... And i am 100% sure he is stronger than Holyfield...

[jowcol]

I'm sorry but, once again, we're talking different eras here. Would the Klit boys have been huge beefcakes in the 20's and 30's?
Wouldn't Patterson have been a chiseled 210 in the 90's?
Ad******g for all this, Sonny is simply a better heavyweight. Evander an ATG but taking the years difference, Liston is the clear winner. Many great boxing minds on board here and you're welcome to disagree.

[SP_Mauler]

Listons footwork was amazing for a man his size. Give me Liston due to the fact that Holyfield couldn't stick it to a 45year old Foreman. Foreman in his younger days may very well be the greatest fighter of all time and according to George Sonny use to stand their and bang with him in sparring. Liston just too mean. Great great fighter Sonny.

[FlyingFrenchman]

Originally Posted by Theron

Listons prime and best was the 2 Cleveland Williams fights
Holyfield couldnt hit nearly as hard as Williams or throw power combination as quick and hard as he did
Liston had a much much better jab and would keep Holyfield off balance the whole fight
And his power was great in both his right and left so i see that working in favour of Liston as well being a two handed puncher that can throw straight and had great boxing skills.

Cleveland Williams sucked!

Holyfield had plenty of power. He stopped Dwight Qawi in 4, Ossie Ocasio in 11, Carlos DeLeon in 8, James Tillis in 5, Pinklon Thomas in 7, Michael Dokes in 10, Adilson Rodrigues in 2, Alex Stewart in 9, James Douglas in 3, Bert Cooper in 7, Bobby Czyz in 5, Mike Tyson in 11, Michael Moorer in 8... and others. He didn't stop Mercer or Bowe but he did drop both men.

Holyfield fought big men who were also athletic and durable. Foreman, Holmes, Bowe, and Lewis were 4 of the best big men ever... even if Foreman and Holmes were past age 40.

Holyfield would be 2" taller than Liston.

Their weight is similar:

Holyfield's- HW World title weigh-in weights ranged from 205-221 Lbs. and he was always ripped. His lowest HW weight was 202 Lbs.

Liston's- ranged from 213-218 Lbs. but his lowest HW weight was 198 Lbs.

Reach?

Liston's has been listed as long as 84"... which I doubt. Holyfield's has been listed as long as 78"... but I believe it is more like 77 1/2". Anyway, it's not a huge factor here. Holyfield fought Foreman, Holmes, Bowe x3, and Lewis x2. He also fought Rahman who has a reach of 82" and Valuev who has a reach of 85" (I'm aware that Valuev was a slow and awkward fighter).

Holyfield is faster and has better footwork.

Strength? It's close but Holyfield proved he could push around much bigger men than Liston had to deal with. I'm going with Holyfield here. Liston is much smaller than many of the fighters Holyfield faced. Holyfield is bigger than almost all of the fighters Liston faced.

Punching Power? I'll give Liston a slight edge here. He didn't show his power vs. the big durable fighters like Holyfield faced though.

Durability? Holyfield. He proved his toughness vs. a much better class of fighter.

Jab? I'll go with Liston but it was a slower jab than Holmes, Bowe, or Lewis had. Rahman's jab was about as fast, as long, and pretty hard as well.

I'll take Holyfield by decision or late round KO/TKO. Liston would have his moments early on but by the middle rounds Holyfield takes control.

A decision win over Machen and KO wins over Patterson x2, Folley, and Williams x2 will not be enough to prepare Liston for Holyfield. Machen, Patterson, and Folley were small Heavyweights who would easily make Cruiserweight today. Williams was 6'3" with an 80" reach and his best weight was around 210 Lbs... he was the worst of this group but the biggest physically, not a huge man and not the most durable man though.