Where does Anthony Mundine rate all time among Australian boxers?

[IntentionalButt]

This got me to thinking:

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

Jimmy Lennon introduces Choc as "One of Australia's ATG athletes..."

Is he?

Is he considered Oz top-10 all-time in either rugby or boxing, let alone all of sport?

Originally Posted by irishny

Certainly not rugby. He was an ok pro. Wasnt even one of the best at the time he was playing.

Boxing?...maybe in Oz

Originally Posted by OZ Puncher

Not in eithe (he is very good at both though), but as a crossover he has been a standout.

Originally Posted by Nonito Smoak

Anytime you're world class in two sports... pretty impressive.

And he is probably one of Australia's best boxers ever, depending how loose you throw the whole "ATG" thing around. Maybe an ATG Australian boxer, right?

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

Revisiting this, now that I have time...

He surely can't even be top 10 p4p all-time in Australian boxing? Can he?

Let's have a look. There must be ten better...

Of the current era...as of today Geale certainly will have to go ahead of him when it's all said and done, however the rest of his career pans out. OK, maybe Geale's the only active one. With all due respect to Katsidis, Green, and Bika, none has made a case to be ahead of Mundine in the history books. Who else is there? Lovemore? Dib? Zappa? Leapai?

From the past: Hall of Famers, for starters. Nobody expects Mundine getting in, agreed? So Tszyu, Fenech, Darcy, and Griffo all by virtue of simply being in there.

Rose and Famechon, too, without question.

So we're up to seven. (in no particular order: Geale, Tszyu, Fenech, Darcy, Griffo, Famechon, Rose)

Here it gets tricky. Is he greater than Bugner? Carruthers? His own father? Some of the old-timers & pioneers we don't really have footage of?

Bottom line, if he's even top 10 all-time in Oz, he's toward the bottom end in the 8/9/10 spot - and there are a few guys you could quibble over bumping him out altogether.

All time great Australian athletes, period? I maintain that JLJ goofed.

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

According to Boxrec's points-based rating system, if he retires today he'll go down as #17 all time in the country. (squeaking ahead of Hector Thompson...and Famechon, which is ridiculous...)

What are your informed opinions?

[swingin]

not top ten. good fighter though. only ever 'just' world class at his peak. excelled himself last night obviously.

pity is, his circus goes on. i sniff a rematch one daywith geale, that may prove to be a retirement fund for daniel when his career is ended. ggg may bring that closer.

darcy
sands
fenech
rose
fammo
tony mundine
thompson
richards
harding
Carruthers
Darchinyan
tszu
Young Griffo
Rocky Mattioli
Barry Michael
Vic Patrick

all rate higher than mundine. quality of opposition must be taken into account, and how a fighter fared when pitted against the best.

[IntentionalButt]

Originally Posted by swingin

quality of opposition must be taken into account, and how a fighter fared when pitted against the best.

Strongly agree.

Green & Geale are nice results on paper, but the latter is controversial. After that he's got Kim, Soliman x3, Echols, and I guess Thornberry as his next shiniest. Hardly the stuff of legend. That interim WBA title doesn't rate for me, nor does Rigo Alvarez himself.

On the theme of performance weighed against quality opposition, I thought Kessler beat him by nearer the Dutch judge's shutout card than the other two. Very little to criticize about the Dane's performance; he really controlled The Man. Getting dropped by Siaca and put to sleep by Ottke in your relative prime doesn't earn high marks, either.

Still, he did hang around a long time and remain in the rankings by hook or by crook. He beat a lot of so-so types comfortably enough and makes a case for himself just through longevity and having overachieved with a late start for boxing.

[IntentionalButt]

Also, how did I overlook Harding? That is an obvious one.


I must confess to not knowing fuck all about Sands, Richards, Mattioli, Michael or Patrick...but I'll take your word for it.

[swingin]

Sands, Richards, Mattioli were all stand out fighters from a stronger era. michael was a world champ. almost too old by the time he got his chance. great little fighter.

patrick also fought in a stronger era, and won aus biggest ever local fight. beat tommy burns. vic stepped up to welter from lightweight to win it. burns was the favourite. vic kod him.

[IntentionalButt]

I notice you didn't include Joe on your list, reckon he's below Mundine then?

[swingin]

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

I notice you didn't include Joe on your list, reckon he's below Mundine then?

i dont consider bugner an aussie fighter. absolutely a great. but he had his real career out of the uk.

geale i rate higher. forgot him... green possibly. but mundine beat him.a case could be made for green regarding quality of opposition.

troy waters, also was a goodun. on a level with mundine. a car accident gave him injuries that hobbled his career. shannon taylor is about even with choc imo.

[IntentionalButt]

Originally Posted by swingin

i dont consider bugner an aussie fighter. absolutely a great. but he had his real career out of the uk.

Ah, fair enough, I had thought he was originally from there...didn't realize it was merely his final destination.

[swingin]

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

Ah, fair enough, I had thought he was originally from there...didn't realize it was merely his final destination.

bulgarian via the UK i think.

[IntentionalButt]

Taylor, eh?

I suppose he did clean up at domestic level for a time, and was only the 3rd man of twenty to carry Arthur Abraham the distance. Got annihilated by prime Sugar Shane, not that it's any blight. Also lost h2h to Mundine, like Green.

I want to say he lost to a few poorer types than Mundine did, but there is always Wood...

KO1 Bramble is a terrific feat, too. At least on par with Mundine's best stoppage (Soliman II)

[JOSEY WALES]

NO not Aussie top ten IMO , and he should consider himself lucky his country of birth was way down in Australia because if he was from the Northern Hemisphere he would have been getting KTFO on a regular basis if he had to have had fought either here in Europe or Stateside .

[JOSEY WALES]

Originally Posted by swingin

bulgarian via the UK i think.

Hungarian actually Sal .

[Burt Shoogar]

Guys like Katsidis , Green, Peden and Briggs are all ahead of the dog cunt.

[IntentionalButt]

Originally Posted by JOSEY WALES

NO not Aussie top ten IMO , and he should consider himself lucky his country of birth was way down in Australia because if he was from the Northern Hemisphere he would have been getting KTFO on a regular basis if he had to have had fought either here in Europe or Stateside .

Wow. Scathing.


He is getting more votes of confidence up in the General Forum than down under!

[swingin]

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

Taylor, eh?

I suppose he did clean up at domestic level for a time, and was only the 3rd man of twenty to carry Arthur Abraham the distance. Got annihilated by prime Sugar Shane, not that it's any blight.

I want to say he lost to a few poorer types than Mundine did, but there is always Wood...

yeah. perhaps im not being kind enough to mundine. is just my opinion. (for what its worth).

unlikeothers, im not impressed with him fighting so late in life. i know he was trained to be a fighter from birth. he hung around his old mans gym all his life, and was taught by tonys trainers etc to fight. he even had some am fights. so li dont get carried away with his raw potential, because he WASNT raw when he 'took up' boxing.

so in his early career, i see mundine fighting old and retired fighters. which is fair enough to start. he then shows his balls in stepping up to fight the undefeated, if not brutal, sven ottke. mundine did fine. but got ko'd by a man not considered much of a puncher. so questions are there regarding his durability. something that must be also considered when judging a fighter. (then there was wood).

then every time he stepped up he got beat. his best wins were green, thornberry, soliman and echols. 3 locals and a standard contender. rick thornberry was past his prime. had they fought at both age 26. i have thornberry taking it. rick won the first 4 rounds of their fight, when rick was past it.

mundine struggles to make the top 20. doesnt make the top 15. but thats just my opinion.