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Old 01-30-2013, 01:36 PM   #106
TheSouthpaw
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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I`ll tell you this much. If the fight is as hotly contested as the debate is in here. It would truly be THE best fight of all time !!

Thats why it is the greatest fight of all time!..
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:47 PM   #107
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

Southpaw, great post !!
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:51 PM   #108
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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Better at what exactly?..
Footwork, Combinations, Strength, Size, Technically superior offensively, jab, cross, uppercut, right hook i.e. punch variety, better outside fighter, countering, reflexes.. I would call Chin a wash and defense a wash.. So yeah, Holyfield is technically better overall.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:53 PM   #109
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See this is where we disagree..... Footwork can and does play a role in Holy's inside game... You can see it evident in a great number of his fights. He's still in the pocket, but he's throwing combinations and moving SLIGHTLY inside and out... rolling with some... stepping around at times.. etc etc. That is how footwork comes into play. Frazier did none of those things like Holy does. If you're asking me who is the better body puncher.. I wouldn't said Frazier.. never disputed that. But bodywork is only a portion of inside fighting. Holy would be throwing the faster crisper combination with much more variety than Frazier. The bigger and stronger would come into play.. if Holy decided Frazier was getting the better inside.. he could simply just push him off of him and create a little distance and throw more combos ala Bowe 2. Point is, Holy, even if you believe is a little inferior on the inside, wouldn't lose the fight based on that. He was MUCH more adaptable than Frazier.. If somethign wasn't working he has more tools in the shed to switch it up and get the job done. Certainly more than Frazier. Point is, even if you believe Frazier is better inside, the different isn't great enough to give Frazier a win, expeically when somebody brings much more to the table in ways to win. Pretty simple really.
You make some great points... I have to aoplogize for coming on too strong. I grew up watching Joe Frazier, and truly appreciating what a warrior he was. Holyfield, is totally cut from the same cloth. Always up against bigger men, his fighting heart and incrdible skills almost always leading him to victory. In all honesty, if Holy showed discipline and followed George Bentons instructions. He could outpoint Frazier by boxing, using great lateral movement and combinations with enough pop in them to draw Fraizer`s respect. The way I see Frazier being able to win, is igniting Holyfield`d warrior spirit, and making it phone booth warfare. I think inside, Holyfield`s reach and outside combinations, would be negated enough to let Frazier work to his advantages. Great debates either way
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:10 PM   #110
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

Fair enough man, and I apologize myself for coming on the way I do. I guess sometimes we can get carried away with a sport and figures we love dearly. That's why I love this place.. so many people who so much knowledge and passion for the sport. I agree with pretty much all you said.. If Holy wasn't smart and just let Frazier dictate the fight.. or even get caught up in a war.. It could end badly for him. I think that is totally true and a good point. Always a pleasure having a good debate Wayne
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Old 01-30-2013, 03:00 PM   #111
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

Just to clarify, by take his heart what I mean is that Holy will beat Frazier to the punch throughout the entire fight and he'll beat him at any range he chooses. This won't be a brutal destruction like foreman and it won't be a clinch fest like the Ali rematch.

It'll be a sustained competitive beatdown. I'm not saying Frazier will quit, he doesn't have an ounce of quit in him. I'm saying he'll realise that his battle is futile and he cannot win.

That's what I meant by take his heart away. A vague comparison would be Hatton against Floyd. His whole strategy was to get inside and once there he found himself getting beaten up badly. His only chance of victory was taken away. I think Frazier will aim to weave inside but once there he's gonna find himself being beaten up.

PP I dont think Frazier has the greatest defence ever but I think his bob and weave is better than Holy and his attempts to slip and roll away from the shots.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:13 PM   #112
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

This what i love about boxing,great fighters, great fights make for great debates ! I truly enjoy swapping good boxing talk. I think this post got lots of emotional response because we are talking about two great heavyweights who are right at the top of the list when it comes to heart and fighting spirit ... Lufcrazy, I get it now.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:31 PM   #113
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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This what i love about boxing,great fighters, great fights make for great debates ! I truly enjoy swapping good boxing talk. I think this post got lots of emotional response because we are talking about two great heavyweights who are right at the top of the list when it comes to heart and fighting spirit ... Lufcrazy, I get it now.
Yeah this would sure make for a great fight, shame we'll never get to see it!
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:44 PM   #114
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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Originally Posted by Waynegrade View Post
This what i love about boxing,great fighters, great fights make for great debates ! I truly enjoy swapping good boxing talk. I think this post got lots of emotional response because we are talking about two great heavyweights who are right at the top of the list when it comes to heart and fighting spirit ... Lufcrazy, I get it now.

Thats exactly why I posted it!...Thanks dude!
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:28 PM   #115
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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This fight goes one way, all out war.
Solid truth.

Holyfield cannot escape Frazier; he will have to go to war--all night--and then it's Frazier's fight.

The fact that Joe Frazier's skills match up so evenly against a performance-enhanced opponent from the future is a tribute to the immense greatness of Smokin' Joe.

P.S. Waynegrade, I appreciate your passion, knowledge and enthusiasm. We need more of the likes of you around these parts, I say.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:57 PM   #116
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

The roided up Holy who defeated Tyson and Moorer stops Smoking Joe late. I compare Holyfield to someone like Roger Clemmons in baseball. Was a hall of famer then after awhile the wear and tear started to take its toll. Then, low and behold, he becomes a beast later on when most mortals are on a serious decline. Deca Durabolin combined with testosterone gave these guys their second career acts.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:44 PM   #117
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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The roided up Holy who defeated Tyson and Moorer stops Smoking Joe late. I compare Holyfield to someone like Roger Clemmons in baseball. Was a hall of famer then after awhile the wear and tear started to take its toll. Then, low and behold, he becomes a beast later on when most mortals are on a serious decline. Deca Durabolin combined with testosterone gave these guys their second career acts.

Im not buying it!...
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:45 PM   #118
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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Originally Posted by prime View Post
Solid truth.

Holyfield cannot escape Frazier; he will have to go to war--all night--and then it's Frazier's fight.

The fact that Joe Frazier's skills match up so evenly against a performance-enhanced opponent from the future is a tribute to the immense greatness of Smokin' Joe.

P.S. Waynegrade, I appreciate your passion, knowledge and enthusiasm. We need more of the likes of you around these parts, I say.

They wouldnt have been to escape EACHOTHER!.period..
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:06 PM   #119
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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Originally Posted by prime View Post
Solid truth.

Holyfield cannot escape Frazier; he will have to go to war--all night--and then it's Frazier's fight.

The fact that Joe Frazier's skills match up so evenly against a performance-enhanced opponent from the future is a tribute to the immense greatness of Smokin' Joe.

P.S. Waynegrade, I appreciate your passion, knowledge and enthusiasm. We need more of the likes of you around these parts, I say.
Wow, thanks for the kind words ! I have such a love of boxing. It`s great to be able to swap stories, opinons and even debates with everyone on here ...
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:28 PM   #120
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

I think this would be the fight of a life time. A brutal affair between two equally matched warriors in strength, heart, stamina, determination and power.

To hell with saying who would win. No way I could call it.
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