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Old 01-30-2013, 06:25 PM   #31
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
Funny, but the only advantage people seem to be able to come up with for Hopkins here is size. How much bigger do you feel that a prime BHop was? And why do you think it would matter to Burley considering he beat a 5 lbs heavier Aaron "Tiger Wade, thrashed a 6 lbs heavier Archie Moore, beat a 7 lbs heavier Jack Chase and an 8 and a half lbs heavier Shorty Hogue?

That's three Murderer's Row members and one rugged white fighter.

Hopkins has no advantages here. Or perhaps you feel he has something on Archie Moore?
So true S. i don't understand why Hopkins who would be under 160 pounds
against Burley in their MW, match would be "much bigger' than Burley if they both weighed in the day of the fight...? Burley,as you described fought often bigger men with great results...
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:35 PM   #32
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

Burley ,Chase stop him,Wade,Hogue dec. One white guyha,ha,ha,ha
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:09 PM   #33
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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Originally Posted by thistle1 View Post
froch, bute less physical but clearly burley, just do the math...

opponents vs opponents not hard to see a great diff.
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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
This doesn't make any sense.
This guy can be quoted as saying Hopkins would be a lower tier journeyman in the 30's, and he wont deny it when he sees this. He also believes in God
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:29 PM   #34
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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This guy can be quoted as saying Hopkins would be a lower tier journeyman in the 30's, and he wont deny it when he sees this. He also believes in God
Thanks, all I need to know.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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Flea thing that makes me laugh is people like arcel and Futch rank burley extremely highly and remember they saw him . But it seems their opinions are not valid as there is no real film of him . But other fighters that their is no real film of are total monsters sorry but I will take what is said by arcel and futch as pretty good advice when rating a fighter he was not greb but he was an amazing fighter and would beat Hopkins
What did Arcel and Futch say about Hopkins? There valuation of him means little here.

We do have footage of him, against a bigger guy and a big puncher. And Burley looks terrific.

I think assuming there is some kind of modern bias or whatnot or that Burley is being underrated here is not on. The reverse is just as true.

This could go either way.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:39 PM   #36
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
Funny, but the only advantage people seem to be able to come up with for Hopkins here is size. How much bigger do you feel that a prime BHop was? And why do you think it would matter to Burley considering he beat a 5 lbs heavier Aaron "Tiger" Wade, thrashed a 6 lbs heavier Archie Moore, beat a 7 lbs heavier Jack Chase and an 8 and a half lbs heavier Shorty Hogue?

That's three Murderer's Row members and one rugged white fighter.

Hopkins has no advantages here. Or perhaps you feel he has something on Archie Moore?
I expect Hopkins to be a little over 3 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier. And that's not the best analogy unless you expect us to pick Shorty Hogue over Hopkins as well.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:51 PM   #37
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
What did Arcel and Futch say about Hopkins? There valuation of him means little here.

We do have footage of him, against a bigger guy and a big puncher. And Burley looks terrific.

I think assuming there is some kind of modern bias or whatnot or that Burley is being underrated here is not on. The reverse is just as true.

This could go either way.
I should of put a good amount of film . Modern bias no I have not suggested that and yes I personally do feel burley is being a little underrated here in this match up but then that is my opinion and of course others will see it differently which is great as if we all thought the same this place would be pretty dull . But for me burley wins this by ud in a competitive fight and at times not a overly exciting one
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:03 PM   #38
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

A little too much credit going to Burley for facing heavier opponents. He didn't beat many good ones who were that much heavier.

Those who believe Hopkins brings nothing to the table I'm afraid are underselling him, or overrating Burley. Regardless of size, Hopkins is a savvy technician in his own right.

I would happily take Hopkins over a 1944 Moore, yes. Are we going to pretend Hopkins isn't an excellent fighter or that excellent fighters were not able to get to Moore?

1951 version, that's a different story. Moore was a comfortably large, experienced light heavyweight around that time, capable of dominating Johnson & Maxim, as well as several good heavyweights. Hopkins would be outgunned.

But of course there would be a version of Hopkins able to take a lighter, more reckless Moore, or an even smaller Burley.

From an ability perspective, Hopkins would have fit right in with the Murderer's Row in the same way as Marvin Hagler or Dick Tiger. He might even come out the best of the bunch.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:22 PM   #39
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
What did Arcel and Futch say about Hopkins? There valuation of him means little here.

We do have footage of him, against a bigger guy and a big puncher. And Burley looks terrific.

I think assuming there is some kind of modern bias or whatnot or that Burley is being underrated here is not on. The reverse is just as true.

This could go either way.
I don't know that he looked terrific? Balanced, nice judge of distance, good placement of shots, decent speed, and he never got tagged. You can't get overwhelmed by the film though.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:12 PM   #40
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
I can't see Hopkins losing to a guy Burley's size
Burley's bigger and more physically accomplished than Oscar de lay Hoya from Burley's bout descriptions and the Smith footage we can veiw; and many (myself included) had Oscar out-boxing the shit out of Hopkins before he got lucky with 'that' liver shot. And anyone who can handle Eddie Booker et al isn't going to get kayo'd by a single Hopkins bodyshot ever...

Burley could out-box, out-hustle and out-punch (in terms of raw power) the best versions of Hopkins; anyone who can turn Archie Moore into his personal skin suit needs more respect than many here are giving Burley.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:09 PM   #41
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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I expect Hopkins to be a little over 3 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier. And that's not the best analogy unless you expect us to pick Shorty Hogue over Hopkins as well.
10 lbs heavier? How so? BHop's prime fight weight was between 157 and 160 pounds. Burley's was roughly around 155. That's not much and matters little considering Burley's success over bigger guys.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:17 PM   #42
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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Burley could out-box, out-hustle and out-punch (in terms of raw power) the best versions of Hopkins; anyone who can turn Archie Moore into his personal skin suit needs more respect than many here are giving Burley.
Pretty much sums it up for me. I haven't heard any compelling arguments for Hopkins beating Burley. He has no advantages that I can see or that anyone has brought into this discussion. None.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:28 PM   #43
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

Burley's style is all wrong for BHop. Charley would beat him as easily as he did Moore. Hopkins would do better against the pressure fighters who allow him to utilize his defensive and counterpunching gifts. He would do well against guys like Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, Stanley Ketchel, Mickey Walker, Jake LaMotta and Marcel Cerdan.

Burley, Carlos Monzon, Holman Williams, Teddy Yarosz, Billy Soose, Mike Gibbons and guys like that give him much more of a problem.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:31 PM   #44
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

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Pretty much sums it up for me. I haven't heard any compelling arguments for Hopkins beating Burley. He has no advantages that I can see or that anyone has brought into this discussion. None.
Charles beat Burley at middleweight. Was that version of Charles better than Hopkins? Would Hopkins not be able to replicate the results of say, Lloyd Marshall or Kid Tunero against Charles?

Because Burley beat a younger Moore is poor reasoning in my opinion. I could definitely imagine Hopkins fighting defensively to decision the Moore of '44.

Are we saying Hopkins would come out bottom-of-the-pile if he mixed it up with Moore, Burley, Booker, Bivins, Charles, Marshall, Williams, Wade, Lytell, Chase, Kid or The Hogues in the '40s?

I think not. I should imagine he'd come out very favourably, losing a fair few but more than holding his own. Hopkins at his best was easily capable of beating any of the above (Charles and Moore as their middleweight incarnations) and to say otherwise is a bit nostalgic.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:37 PM   #45
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Default Re: Bernard Hopkins vs Charley Burley

Who did Hopkins ever beat?
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