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Old 02-01-2013, 01:54 AM   #121
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Just to clarify, by take his heart what I mean is that Holy will beat Frazier to the punch throughout the entire fight and he'll beat him at any range he chooses. This won't be a brutal destruction like foreman and it won't be a clinch fest like the Ali rematch.

It'll be a sustained competitive beatdown. I'm not saying Frazier will quit, he doesn't have an ounce of quit in him. I'm saying he'll realise that his battle is futile and he cannot win.

That's what I meant by take his heart away. A vague comparison would be Hatton against Floyd. His whole strategy was to get inside and once there he found himself getting beaten up badly. His only chance of victory was taken away. I think Frazier will aim to weave inside but once there he's gonna find himself being beaten up.

PP I dont think Frazier has the greatest defence ever but I think his bob and weave is better than Holy and his attempts to slip and roll away from the shots.
I could see Holyfield getting the better of the early rounds. Maybe the first third of the fight. Thats when Joe Frazier started to Smoke.

Frazier loved combat and he would be right at home trading hooks on the inside with Holyfield. The pace of the fight would be furious and that would favor Frazier. He was a non stop punching machine.

I believe by the mid rounds Holyfield would be wishing he was in the ring with Tyson. The consistant body assault of Frazier should, probably would grind Evander down into a fine powder by the 10th 11th rounds.

Cant discount ringpace in a fight like this. As the fight wore on Holyfield`s punch output would decrease due to the constant pressure Frazier applies while Joe`s increases as he catches Evander`s rythem. Like a great NFL running back get stronger as the game goes on Joe Frazier`s hooks got sharper and meaner as the fight went into deep water.

I dont necessarily see a stoppage though. Holyfield had enough heart to hang in there to the final bell. Even if he has to climb off the canvas one or twice.

Last edited by ETM; 02-01-2013 at 02:13 AM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:15 PM   #122
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

I think ETM nailed it. I wouldn't be shocked if Evander won but I can't help but remember how close Burt Cooper came to ko'ing Holy in thier fight by using similar tactics to get inside that Frazier did. And whie Cooper was a dangerous opponet and a good fighter when trained properly, he was no Joe Frazier. Does that mean Joe wins automatically? Of course not. But it does show that if Cooper coud work his way inside and hurt Evander then certainly Frazier could.....and would as well. Joe by decision in a barn burner.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:42 AM   #123
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

Holyfield. Better combination puncher, a great inside fighter with underrated Defense. Both have underrated D actually but Holyfield had a greater punch variety coming off of it IMO

His ability to roll with shots and come back with his own carries the day as no doubt Frazier would be the one coming forward, playing into Holyfield's great countering abilities.
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:45 AM   #124
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

To be honest, holy always struggled with pressure fighters with power, just because of him always getting dragged into slug-fests. He was too stubborn and always wanted to prove a point. I think this would suit Frazier well. Frazier would stop him late imo.
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:10 AM   #125
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

just watching Burt Cooper a Joe Frazier imitation with a lot less give Holyfield hell I feel Joe had too much firepower and focus and Joe went to the body well and James Toney KO'd Evander by body work, one of the things few big guys do is really bang to the body but something Frazier would do and IMO stop Evander
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:42 AM   #126
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

Good point Bummy. Few fighters of the Holyfield era ever attempted a sustained body attack on Evander. Lets face it, body punching is a lost art in the HW division and has been for quite some time. When Toney went to Holy's body he systematically dismantled him. No one one had ever done that to Evander before and frazier was a body punching demon. Fighters today seem to rely on heads shots too often. "kill the body and the head will die" is a forgotten mantra in the HW division today but Frazier epitomized it. It would be a war no doubt but I lean toward Frazier by dcision.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:03 PM   #127
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

This is a great fight ! Two warriors, with no quit in either of them ... It can go two ways, if Holy boxes uses his jab, combinations and lateral movement he can squeak out a decision. Here`s the problem, the warrior in Holy might not let him fight Frazier that way. If it goes into the trenches and Holy goes inside against Frazier, that`s a blueprint for how he loses to Frazier. Inside Holy`s strengths are nullified and Frazier is a stronger inside fighter. Now Bert Cooper ( a less than Frazier clone) gave Holy problems and hurt him as well in their fight. this fight comes down to who fights his fight. I am basing this on `71` edition Frazier who just wouldn`t stop against Ali.And Frazier`s violent body attack like a cheap wine, would have a major affect on Holy as the fight goes late. I like Frazier, but it has to be the Frazier of Superfight 1 ...Tyson/Frazier comparisons are not valid. Tyson looked to fire bombs and get you out and was not the consistent body puncher that Frazier was. Plus where Tyson tends to menatlly wilt if the fighter doesn`t go, Frazier digs in and keeps on `Smokin`.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:10 PM   #128
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

I am just rereading some of the great posts. What a barn-burner of a fight this would have been !!
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:51 PM   #129
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

The very best version of Frazier by decision...otherwise Holyfield. Evander would be my pick to win a series between the two.
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:01 AM   #130
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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Originally Posted by gentleman jim View Post
Good point Bummy. Few fighters of the Holyfield era ever attempted a sustained body attack on Evander. Lets face it, body punching is a lost art in the HW division and has been for quite some time. When Toney went to Holy's body he systematically dismantled him. No one one had ever done that to Evander before and frazier was a body punching demon. Fighters today seem to rely on heads shots too often. "kill the body and the head will die" is a forgotten mantra in the HW division today but Frazier epitomized it. It would be a war no doubt but I lean toward Frazier by dcision.
Coincidentally, the best round that Tyson had against Holyfield was round 5, the only round where Tyson worked Holyfields body
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:11 AM   #131
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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Coincidentally, the best round that Tyson had against Holyfield was round 5, the only round where Tyson worked Holyfields body
Good point ! I thought that Bowe softened up Holy significantly by going to the body (hard) as well ...
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Old 03-24-2013, 10:57 AM   #132
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

You're right 85...I forgot to mention that as well. Tyson landed a brutal body shot that had Holy wincing and in obvious distress in that round. If Mike was a good body puncher ala Frazier that fight might've gone a different way. Joe would've made Holy's body a target and that might've been the deciding factor. He would've taken punishment downstairs like never before and let's face it, body punching wasn't in vogue at the time. Joe by decision like ETM said.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:01 PM   #133
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

edit

Last edited by John Galt; 03-28-2014 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:16 PM   #134
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

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It would be fun to watch Holyfield and Frazier.

Too many people are comparing Holyfield's fights with Tyson and Cooper to a fight with Frazier. Frazier was a hard worker with a lot of heart. He didn't have the explosiveness or athleticism of Tyson or Cooper. Tyson didn't fight at all like Frazier. Cooper fought a bit like Frazier, but he had a drug problem that affected his stamina, and intensity for most of his career. Cooper mostly got pummeled on the inside by Holyfield but, Cooper was an explosive athlete and when he landed, his punches shook Holyfield. Frazier probably didn't hit as hard as Cooper with one punch, but he had better stamina and could punch hard for more rounds.

Holyfield would have the athletic advantages over Frazier. He could punch with both hands, he could fight inside and outside, he could move well in the ring, etc. They are both as tough as anybody. Holyfield could probably move and box and win a decision, but we all know Holyfield wouldn't do that. As soon as Frazier hit him, Holyfield would try to hit him harder.

It would probably be a trench war and both of them were excellent inside fighters. Holyfield was also a physically strong fighter and that might be his biggest advantage. He might be able to push Frazier off balance or backward. If he could, that would enable him to control the distance and that would swing the fight into Holyfield's favor. And, don't know if anyone has mentioned it, but when you fight inside with Holyfield, you'll probably get cut by an "accidental head butt."

Cannot compare with the Tyson fights!...
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:22 PM   #135
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Default Re: Joe Frazier Vs. Evander Holyfield..Prime for Prime?

Frazier by KO.
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