Is the WBA belt the proper one that froch and Kessler

[Undisputed P4P]

The WBA created the 'super' title so that they could pick up sanctioning fees when theres a unified champion. In the ward case he became the 'super' champion as he held the WBC title. But now he has been stripped of that he should really be only a 'regular' champion which the WBA should announce soon. The winner of froch-kessler will/should become the 'super' champion as they would hold 2 of the recognised world titles, the IBF and WBA.

After froch-kessler it should look like this

WBA super champion froch/kessler
WBA regular champion ward

Which is pretty funny as ward has beaten them both pretty convincingly and is recognised as the best super middleweight in the world.

[achillesthegreat]

The WBA are disgusting and a disgrace to boxing. Sadly Froch Kessler and Ward are both high profile thus causing confusion. Its not so bad when the regular champ is a nobody.

[GrandSlam]

Originally Posted by AlFrancis

Whatever way you want to look at it, Ward is the best fighter in the division and he's beat both Froch and Kessler comfortably.
How many rounds has Kessler boxed in that time by the way?
It's a great matchup, but neither of them can claim to be the best until they fight Ward.

I agree...but that's like saying Nadal is the best Tennis player on the planet. He is, when he's competing...but when he isn't, the titles should go elsewhere. Every sport is about who is competing. If Ward doesn't really want to fight anyone (like after the S6), or is injured, then he shouldn't be a de facto champion until he decides he wants to fight again.

Ok, Kess hasn't boxed too many more rounds, but he's had more fights - Boudla, Green and Magee...to Ward's 1 with Dawson.

If Froch wins, he will go for a Ward rematch at some point, and I give him a chance in that (not many do, but there ya go). I think he'll go for whoever wins the WBC first though, and whoever's got it at the point will be someone he either has beaten, or can beat easily. Imagine by the end of the year...Ward with no titles, and Froch with them all....and you know what, Froch would give him the rematch for the sake of pride imo...

[dftaylor]

Originally Posted by GrandSlam

Basically, Ward doesn't hold any belts, because he doesn't fight very much and isn't a very good poster boy for any of the sanctioning bodies. The fight is for the IBF and WBA titles. Isn't 'Super Champion' essentially the equivalent of the WBC's 'Champion Emeritus'?

I'm fed up reading 'Froch isn't a champion, Kessler isn't a champion' bullshit posts. The fact is, Ward has fought a whole 9 or 10 rounds since DECEMBER 2011...AND HE AIN'T FIGHTING ANY TIME SOON!!!!!! He is the champion of fuck all. If Manchester City didn't turn up for the Premiership this season, they wouldn't still be the champions come May, just because they didn't compete, so therefore no one could beat them! It's professional sport, you have to compete to be relevant.

Froch and Kessler ARE champions because they took the fights that Ward wouldn't take, fights people thought they couldn't win, and went out to prove themselves. They are proper fighters, and champions, both officially and in the broader sense of the term.

What a dreadful post. Ward, like him or not, beat both men out of sight.

[GrandSlam]

Originally Posted by dftaylor

What a dreadful post. Ward, like him or not, beat both men out of sight.

Nowhere have I denied he beat them...in face, look at my post above, and you'll see I acknowledge him as the best fighter in the division. The point of my post was that you can't sit around for a year, not fighting anyone, then getting injured and just indefinitely hang onto the belts. Anymore than any team or individual in ANY other sport can from season to season. That is my point, and I've not said Ward isn't the best 168-er in the World...

[dftaylor]

Originally Posted by GrandSlam

Nowhere have I denied he beat them...in face, look at my post above, and you'll see I acknowledge him as the best fighter in the division. The point of my post was that you can't sit around for a year, not fighting anyone, then getting injured and just indefinitely hang onto the belts. Anymore than any team or individual in ANY other sport can from season to season. That is my point, and I've not said Ward isn't the best 168-er in the World...

Your post still makes little sense. If Ward is, by your own admission, the best at the weight, then Kessler and Froch holding belts completely devalues them.

The belt orgs are a cancer on the sport.

[richard mossley]

Originally Posted by Bill C84

This fight dosent need a happy belt on the line, neither Froch or Kessler are ''world champions'' Ward is the only world champion in the division but again this fight is quality and the belts mean sod all.

This fight has a title. The undisputed second best super middleweight of the world is at stake.

[smegmaa]

Originally Posted by Undisputed P4P

The WBA created the 'super' title so that they could pick up sanctioning fees when theres a unified champion. In the ward case he became the 'super' champion as he held the WBC title. But now he has been stripped of that he should really be only a 'regular' champion which the WBA should announce soon. The winner of froch-kessler will/should become the 'super' champion as they would hold 2 of the recognised world titles, the IBF and WBA.

After froch-kessler it should look like this

WBA super champion froch/kessler
WBA regular champion ward

Which is pretty funny as ward has beaten them both pretty convincingly and is recognised as the best super middleweight in the world.

This sounds right but fuck me it's complicated when Ward is #1 and holds a belt!

[smegmaa]

So basically Ward & Kessler are both NOW holding the exact same title - of reg WBA champ!

[GrandSlam]

Originally Posted by dftaylor

Your post still makes little sense. If Ward is, by your own admission, the best at the weight, then Kessler and Froch holding belts completely devalues them.

The belt orgs are a cancer on the sport.

No it doesn't...take any other sport...say Rugby. From year to year, the All Blacks are the best team in the World in terms of rankings. On World Cup years, however, they've only won 2 tournaments. Now the team calling themselves 'World Champions' because they won the World Cup - by your logic - shouldn't be allowed to call themselves that, if they aren't at no.1 in the rankings. Is the World Cup a cancer of the sport?

The titles maintain interest and rankings in a sport where people aren't OBLIGED to face each other.

When the best fighter in terms of head to head records and rankings (Ward) isn't fighting, that doesn't mean that someone else isn't the champion, or the best currently active boxer in that weight division. Surely that's not too far fetched of a concept?

Now Ward has no titles, he'll actually have to fight and go after some when he comes back. He can't sit in Oakland telling people they have to come to him. Surely that's good for the sport? He showed no intention of making big fights for himself, so why should hang onto titles indefinitely? His mentality, aged 27, was 'I've had 27 fights (or however many it is), won them all, got all the titles apart from one...and now I don't have to do anything'. Yeah, really great for the sport, that...

[AlFrancis]

Originally Posted by GrandSlam

I agree...but that's like saying Nadal is the best Tennis player on the planet. He is, when he's competing...but when he isn't, the titles should go elsewhere. Every sport is about who is competing. If Ward doesn't really want to fight anyone (like after the S6), or is injured, then he shouldn't be a de facto champion until he decides he wants to fight again.

Ok, Kess hasn't boxed too many more rounds, but he's had more fights - Boudla, Green and Magee...to Ward's 1 with Dawson.

If Froch wins, he will go for a Ward rematch at some point, and I give him a chance in that (not many do, but there ya go). I think he'll go for whoever wins the WBC first though, and whoever's got it at the point will be someone he either has beaten, or can beat easily. Imagine by the end of the year...Ward with no titles, and Froch with them all....and you know what, Froch would give him the rematch for the sake of pride imo...

Well he didn't look too bad against Chad Dawson 4 months ago the WBC lightheavyweight champion who's a step up from anyone Kessler or Froch have been fighting over the last year and a half.
He's the man and he's proved it against the best super middles about. I would call the Froch Kessler fight an eliminator and hopefully Ward will fight the winner unless he moves up to lightheavy due to of running out of challengers.
By the way, I hope Froch does get a chance at revenge and I hope he wins as well.

[GrandSlam]

Originally Posted by AlFrancis

Well he didn't look too bad against Chad Dawson 4 months ago the WBC lightheavyweight champion who's a step up from anyone Kessler or Froch have been fighting over the last year and a half.
He's the man and he's proved it against the best super middles about. I would call the Froch Kessler fight an eliminator and hopefully Ward will fight the winner unless he moves up to lightheavy due to of running out of challengers.
By the way, I hope Froch does get a chance at revenge and I hope he wins as well.

I would argue at the time of the respective fights that Bute was considered a) a more dangerous fighter, and b) certainly more relevant to the SMW division than Dawson was. Yes, he got a panelling from Ward, and fair play...but up to that point, it was like Ward wanted nothing to do with the SMW division!

Anyway...it's all moot, the fight's for two titles, Ward is the best fighter, but currently out of the mix while he recovers, and so I see no problem with the winner being called 'Champion' or even 'Unified Champion'.

Then, hopefully as you say, we get a massive mega fight with the winner v Ward and we're all happy!

[Boxed Ears]

"Proper" and "WBA" in the same sentence. I've just noticed.

[daddycool]

Originally Posted by SouthpawSlayer

threads should not be allowed made when it comes to talking about belts

How about a belt forum to keep it all separate...

[AlFrancis]

Originally Posted by daddycool

How about a belt forum to keep it all separate...

I wouldn't be posting on it, it's a fucking joke I'm old enough to remember when there was only one World Champ. I remember thinking it was bizarre having just two(WBC and WBA). We've only got one world!!!