did JMM intentionally get hit...

[BATU]

Originally Posted by john garfield

...to sucker Pac?

JMM didnt have to let him cause Pacs a born sucker. Waive a suit case full of single dollar bills and he'll do anything.

[saul_ir34]

Not at all.

Pac just forgot why he has never been able to finish JMM. Because anytime JMM is hurt and Pac goes for it he gets clocked hard. He took a risk in doing so and paid the ultimate price.

[JohnnyDrama99]

No.....but he took more risks knowing he had the power to hurt/drop/KO Manny in this last one. To get the KO, JMM walked through hell and took a major ass whooping which was NOT the norm for when these two face each other....not that they didn't take punishment in their other meetings, but usually the fights were more competitive and would go the distance. the 4th fight was pretty one sided and ended abruptly with a come from behind victory. Good stuff.

[bjl12]

Originally Posted by LEROY

Naptards just mad this fight was on an even playing field and he got Acapulco raped

This.

[kalunya5964]

Originally Posted by john garfield

...to sucker Pac?

I don't think so but it was obvious that JMM was punching less and loading on his punches! It seemed that he wanted to kill Pac with each punch he threw!

[Babyface_Johnny]

Originally Posted by Gander Tasco

How did that even answer my question. How was JMM's gameplan in the 4th fight any different then the first 3? He did the same exact thing. The difference is the shots he hit Manny with this time hurt him a lot more.

http://i47.tinypic.com/s6q9fa.jpg

[this_and_that]

Not a chance.

Even Pac with his recklessness would still bob and weave and do all fancy feints and side steps JUST NOT TO GET HIT.

It's these pisstards and flomos that make it appear that Pac was doing absolutely nothing of value against JMM that night, thus the "It was all JMM's plan to get a broken nose" posts.
The reality is absolutely far from it.
Bogo's transtaltion of JMM's round per round post fight analysis pretty much sums it all up.
Of course it's a tad biased in favor of JMM, but it's not very far either from what was happening.

[IvyLeagueBoxing]

That's retarded. Nobody gets " intentionally hit " by someone who punches as hard as Pacquiao just to sucker him in... SMH

No elite fighter is dumb enough to pull a move like that in a such crucial matchup unless your name is Mayorga..

[Impulse_0]

Guys every punch that PAC has ever hit Marquez with has all been part of Marquez's master plan to KO manny in the 4th fight. He knew this from day one

PAC has never hit Marquez it's all one big set up

[Drew101]

I think I understand where JG is coming from by asking this question....

In contrast to the third fight, where JMM's entire plan seemed predicated on the idea of staying the hell off the canvas and fighting more defensively in the early rounds as a result, this time he was obviously looking to put Manny on the canvas from the opening bell and therefore was more focused on offense. JMM had to know that he was going to get tagged as a result of taking this approach, but appeared to be willing to take the punishment in order to dish out some of his own.

I don't think he intentionally swallowed some of the punches that broke his nose and wobbled him...But he certainly didn't go into full retreat when he shipped those punches, either.

So, no...I don't think it's far-fetched to think that JMM intentionally placed himself at greater risk to get better chance of unloading on Pac.

[Rex Tickard]

Originally Posted by turbotime

Marquez took some big shots early, realized he could take them, and stood in the pocket waiting for his chance.

This sums it all up in a nutshell.

Instead of carefully picking Pacquiao apart from the outside as he did in their 3rd fight (and much of the 1st and 2nd fights as well), he willingly exposed himself to danger while looking for big shots himself. He had "KO" on his mind right from the beginning - he wasn't going to let this go to another (bad) decision, and instead gambled it all for a chance to win it all.

Essentially, he beat Pacquiao at his own game.

[Rex Tickard]

Originally Posted by Gander Tasco

If you read all of Juan's assessment of the fight, he says he was boxing smart, using intelligence - essentially the same thing he's done in the past.

In the interview that mgdb posted, he basically says outright that he was eyeing the opportunity for one big headshot - which is distinctly different from his approach in the previous fight, in which he also mixed jabs and body shots from a safe distance.

He was still being "intelligent" in the 4th fight, but in a different way.

[divac]

Originally Posted by Drew101

I think I understand where JG is coming from by asking this question....

In contrast to the third fight, where JMM's entire plan seemed predicated on the idea of staying the hell off the canvas and fighting more defensively in the early rounds as a result, this time he was obviously looking to put Manny on the canvas from the opening bell and therefore was more focused on offense. JMM had to know that he was going to get tagged as a result of taking this approach, but appeared to be willing to take the punishment in order to dish out some of his own.

I don't think he intentionally swallowed some of the punches that broke his nose and wobbled him...But he certainly didn't go into full retreat when he shipped those punches, either.

So, no...I don't think it's far-fetched to think that JMM intentionally placed himself at greater risk to get better chance of unloading on Pac.

Spot on 101!

I'm not sure if it was during the 24/7's leading to the fight, but Nacho Beristain is on video somewhere during one of Marquez' workouts as saying, "vamos a poner a su pinche madre en la lona por lo menos una vez Juan!"

I cant figure the exact translation as far as the cuzz words, maybe Tazo can help, but its something to the effect, "we're going to put the motherfucker on the canvas at least once Juan!"

Signs that the gameplan going in was to seek at least knockdowns if not a KO, thus we know Marquez had to place himself in vulnerable positions to throw shots with more torque than he had been in his previous fights with Pacquaio.

I believe it was one of the golpe a golpe's that Tazo translated that has the host asking Marquez why after getting hurt in the 5th you were still willing to trade with Pacquiao or was it that your legs could'nt carry you away from harm, Marquez' response was that his legs felt fine, that feeling Pacquiao's power which is great, I felt I could take it.

Sign again there from Marquez he was willing to take a few to dish his own!


I agree with Drew101, Marquez did'nt take the shots on purpose, but his gameplan and mindset for the fight allowed for a good offensive fighter like Pacquiao to get his shots off as well.

Imo, had Marquez followed the same gameplan and fought with the mindset he did in fight 3, it would'nt have allowed for Pacquiao to have been as sharp as he looked in fight 4!

Marquez' mindset for fight 4 was totally different than it was for fight 3.

[divac]

Originally Posted by Rex Tickard

In the interview that mgdb posted, he basically says outright that he was eyeing the opportunity for one big headshot - which is distinctly different from his approach in the previous fight, in which he also mixed jabs and body shots from a safe distance.

He was still being "intelligent" in the 4th fight, but in a different way.

Something to be added is that Marquez in fight 4 was digging some vicious body shots with both hands. Marquez was shooting those body shots with alot of torque behind them, which again going to the body and with power no less opens oneself up to get countered in return.

Marquez was mean and all business for fight 4, no question about it!

[ripcity]

Originally Posted by sbbigmike

Actually the Knock down was the result of Manny stepping on his foot and turning quickly, he wasn't hurt IMO

I don't think the knockdown hurt Marquez either, but he did get hurt as the round went on.