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Old 02-12-2013, 03:22 PM   #121
Mr Butt
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Originally Posted by AlFrancis View Post
I was waiting for somebody to post their view on who won the Hagler Leonard fight. You've started something now.
For the record I thought Leonard won, that was watching it live on closed circuit.
I have been meaning to watch it again since but haven't got round to it. I was quite surprised the next day in the news how many people thought Hagler won. At the time I thought Ray had pissed it but I've got to admit, it was very pro Leonard in there and everyone was pissed up.
I will watch it again and post an honest opinion. Maybe I was one of those caught up in what McIlvanney called Ray's illusion.
The media were very pro-leonard for me any way. I can't remember my exact scorecard but I am pretty sure I had hagler up by two PTs but no more than that I think I have mentioned before that my brother watched it a few years back and he felt hagler edged it , but my step dad thought leonard won as did my eldest son when he watched
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:26 PM   #122
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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The media were very pro-leonard for me any way. I can't remember my exact scorecard but I am pretty sure I had hagler up by two PTs but no more than that I think I have mentioned before that my brother watched it a few years back and he felt hagler edged it , but my step dad thought leonard won as did my eldest son when he watched
Yes, I think it's one of them fights open to interpretation. I think really as well that a lot of people couldn't believe wahat was unravelling in front of their eyes. Not many people at the time really thought Leonard had a chance, one unimpressive win at welter in the last 4 or 5 years.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:38 PM   #123
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

AL was the Howard fight at light-middle

Have you ever met leonard to talk to AL at the conventions you have been to
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:45 PM   #124
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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AL was the Howard fight at light-middle

Have you ever met leonard to talk to AL at the conventions you have been to
No, it was at welter and the only time he'd fought a middleweight was against Marcos Geraldo before he won the welterweight title. I've never seen that fight but I'm sure I remember reading that he had a tough night.
I've never met him, I'd like to though. I'd ask him why he ducked Tony Ayala jnr.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:50 PM   #125
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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No, it was at welter and the only time he'd fought a middleweight was against Marcos Geraldo before he won the welterweight title. I've never seen that fight but I'm sure I remember reading that he had a tough night.
I've never met him, I'd like to though. I'd ask him why he ducked Tony Ayala jnr.
Just read the weights and they were 149 & 150 and a half lbs.

Ayala didn't leonard hearns Duran and hagler duck him
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:09 PM   #126
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

[quote=Bokaj;14749719]Cherry picker because he had the balls to try something Hagler didn't?

It's amazing that Leonard gets so much stick for challenging guys far bigger than him, while Hagler gets no stick for not challenging bigger guys at all.

Leonard only fought one guy smaller than him (whom Hagler also fought), while Hagler's biggest win is against a natural WW/JMW. Leonard fought Kalule (before Hearns incidentally), Hagler and LaLonde while Hagler never faced anyone above MW. And yet Leonard is the one getting stick - for not facing Pryor.

This really is stupid beyond belief.

Can anyone with a straight face say that Leonard didn't take on greater challenges than Hagler did?[/quote]

Yes , Hagler did not need phony retirements etc... he was a smallish / Average middleweight that stayed in his division to rule for almost a decade , where Loenard needed to ' retire' in his prime. He was like a vulture circling around in the sky semi retired so he did not need to fight any maditors and could pick and chose a victim at what time and weight suited Leonard.

Hopkins and Mayweather have learnt the same trick, Hopkins gets chased out of MW , due to the fact that he could not beat JT, sees Tarver out of shape after the Rocky movie and has to loss a ton of weight, Hopkins swoops in to get a great win, then hoovers around some more and see's Winky and drags him up in weight to get a great win, same with Pavlik etc...

All these guys are great boxers , but I give more kudo's to someone that stays in a good division to rule the roost.
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Old 02-12-2013, 04:11 PM   #127
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Just read the weights and they were 149 & 150 and a half lbs.

Ayala didn't leonard hearns Duran and hagler duck him
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:47 PM   #128
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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still had more of a career than Leonard. leonard's was sub par by comparison. just a couple of big name fighters, one of them shot by the time.

While TN took Sugar hismelf and tied him in knots. no contest.

i think the Norris fight was a very good barometer of Sugar's true abilities

he was supposed to take Norris no sweat. the thinking goes if he was as good as you all say, if he really were fighter of the decade, shouldnt he have won without a problem?

it was only in his previous match that he dominated every round

Anyways, I loved the fight cuz it gave Sugar a chance to shut up all of us critics

instead, it only proved us right all along

easy to see why Sugar needed 5 yrs to call out Hagler

Here's my top 5 of the 80s (in order). anything else is a joke

Hagler
Spinks
Sanchez
Tyson
McCallum
You are priceless !! Most (in the know ) boxing people, knew that Norris was a major risk for SRL, given that SRL was miles past his prime. Please, don`t make a fool of yourself by trying to say that this ws anywhere near prime Leonard. The whole Norris story is so old because he lost to several mediocre fighters, cherry picked guys either coming up in weight, or not in their respective primes.
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Old 02-13-2013, 07:13 AM   #129
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

If quality of opponents and victories over them were the only criteria,then Ray would take the fighter of the eighties award. His lay offs during 1982-84 through '87 prevent him from taking it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:00 AM   #130
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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If quality of opponents and victories over them were the only criteria,then Ray would take the fighter of the eighties award. His lay offs during 1982-84 through '87 prevent him from taking it.
Great point ! He won significant fights during this time period. the long layoffs hurt his standing though.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:31 AM   #131
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Hopkins gets chased out of MW , due to the fact that he could not beat JT, sees Tarver out of shape after the Rocky movie and has to loss a ton of weight, Hopkins swoops in to get a great win, then hoovers around some more and see's Winky and drags him up in weight to get a great win, same with Pavlik etc....


Hopkins did what Hagler never had the bottle to do, and stepped out of his comfort zone and fought a top fighter above his own weight.This is something that Hagler would never have contemplated doing, because there is a lot less risk involved in calling out smaller fighters to define your legacy.


And any way you look at it, losing two ridiculously close fights to a good, young middleweight contender is a lot less embarrassing than losing to a washed up, inactive, coke-addicted welterweight with a well documented history of eye trouble.
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Old 02-13-2013, 06:01 PM   #132
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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You are priceless !! Most (in the know ) boxing people, knew that Norris was a major risk for SRL, given that SRL was miles past his prime. Please, don`t make a fool of yourself by trying to say that this ws anywhere near prime Leonard. The whole Norris story is so old because he lost to several mediocre fighters, cherry picked guys either coming up in weight, or not in their respective primes.
if that were true, then many in the know would have stepped forward and predicted a Norris win

still havent seen one name of those in the know that have done so

therefore you made it up

Norris was just better. he proved it in the ring where it counts

He had his chance and blew it. he couldnt prove himself, that's what it comes down to. he had problems with boxers like Norris & Nunn, boxers with SPEED!

personally I think Leonard never took the fight with Hagler b/c he knew he wasnt worthy of stepping in the ring with him.

and IMO, wasnt worthy of stepping in the ring w Norris. He proved that also

and every time he ducked a fighter, it only lowers his status even further which is why I can say without hesitation that he isnt close to being fighter of the 80s.

beter fighters: Hagler, Spinks, Pryor, Hearns, Sanchez, Tyson, ...fighters with real careers and no contrived layoffs
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:03 AM   #133
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Originally Posted by Goyourownway View Post
Hopkins did what Hagler never had the bottle to do, and stepped out of his comfort zone and fought a top fighter above his own weight.This is something that Hagler would never have contemplated doing, because there is a lot less risk involved in calling out smaller fighters to define your legacy.


And any way you look at it, losing two ridiculously close fights to a good, young middleweight contender is a lot less embarrassing than losing to a washed up, inactive, coke-addicted welterweight with a well documented history of eye trouble.

Hagler was a MW and fought at MW, he took on all contenders. The MW crown was only 2nd the the HW crown and Hagler was the MW king.

The only reason Hopkins left MW to go north was because he could not beat the new MW champ, what was he to do? stay at MW and wait for someone to beat JT, while he goes back to fighting contenders?.
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:58 AM   #134
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

i wish we would have seen srl vs pryor
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:20 AM   #135
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Default Re: Ray Leonard: Best Fighter of the 80's?

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Great point ! He won significant fights during this time period. the long layoffs hurt his standing though.
his layoffs were by his own choosing. What really sent him downhill was the fight with Norris. knowing a mentally sensative fighter Leonard was, he was probably hanging his head for a week
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