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Old 02-14-2013, 07:32 PM   #46
red cobra
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

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Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw View Post
I agree!...You can say Rocky would have beaten Floyd and in the same sentence say Im glad The Rock didnt come back.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

In 1959. Patterson would have slaughtered Marciano. Way too young, quick and sharp punching was Floyd.

Not surprised so many people here pick Rocky though. After all, he was Superman. Never got hurt, never got cut, never got knocked down in a fight. And of course, he could come back from a long layoff, whip himself into shape and beat a young turk.

Just like Jeffries beat Johnson.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:05 PM   #48
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

I agree with janwalshs' post. Marciano, as formidable as he was in his prime would need to be very near his prime if he was going to beat Patterson in '59. 60 or 70 percent of his old self wouldn't have cut it. Rocky had to overcome some natural handicaps to become a champion due to his small stature, late start, short reach etc..He did this with dogged determination and being in excellent physical condition. He relied on his body to see him through on many occasions by outlasting his opposition and coming on strong when his opponent would tire. This was essential for him as it was for someone who had to weather the storm and get inside a taller heavier opponent to do damage. Joe Frazier also comes to mind as that type of fighter. In 1959 Rocky's body wouldn't have been able to respond to the brutal training regimen he was accustomed to going thru when in his prime. He would've entered the fight with only 60 to 70 percent of his old assets still with him and that wouldn't be enough. Not against Patterson in my opinion. Marciano was a hell of a fighter but I think too many people mistakenly mythologize him and believe that he was invincible. Rocky was no fool. He retired at the right time and resisted any attempt(s) to comeback despite the money that was offered him which is good as it probably would've tarnished his legacy.
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Old 02-15-2013, 09:58 PM   #49
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Default Re: Marciano considering a comeback in 1959 to fight Floyd?

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I do know that before Marciano retired there was talks of having a Marciano/Patterson exhibition match on network television scheduled for three rounds; but nobody was interested in doing the match unless the title was on the line in an actual match, not an exhibition. At the time Patterson had not yet fought as a heavyweight.

Marciano didn't have that many choices left as it was, Baker and Valdes were both eliminated by the commissions because of their horrible performance against one another. Earl Walls was considered, but he retired instead. A rematch with Moore didn't seem necessary and wouldnt of drawn the money Marciano would have wanted.

He waited a few more months, but nothing ever came, and then he shit canned it all. When Patterson became champion, talks were ongoing, but the truth was Cus D'Amato didn't want Patterson to face Marciano, he had bigger things in mind (dictating the pace of the IBC board). When Johansson upset Patterson, Marciano's interests perked up. It was during the rematch that Marciano said on commentary that he was very interested in fighting the winner; of course Patterson won the rematch, and again D'Amato blocked it. Marciano then signed a contract, that if Johansson defeated Patterson in the rubber match he would use his championship emeritus to fight Johansson in his maiden defense. Marciano began training, found the road to getting in shape to be hard, but continued on anyways; and again Patterson won, and Marciano lost his chance at regaining the title.

When Sonny Liston was champion, rumors surfaced of negotiations for a Liston/Marciano match, but this stemmed from an altercation at Liston's training camp. Marciano was there, and overheard a reporter ask Liston if he could have beaten Marciano in his prime and Liston said yes and went a step further saying he would have beaten him bloody. Marciano then challenged Liston right then and there in the gym to a fight, and Liston declined. That is the extent of that rumor. From that time onwards Marciano criticized Liston as a bully and a coward and said whoever could stand up to him would defeat him, which was proven when Ali defeated Liston.

Marciano, as late as 1964, was being offered fights. It was well documented prior to Ali fighting for the world title, that a Texas millionaire (oil) offered Marciano $4,000,000 to make a return and fight Ali. Sports Illustrated ran with the story and said famously "40 is not the best age for a white hope", and Marciano declined this as well. Ironically the two men would meet later, under strange circumstances filming "The Super Fight" in 1969 to determine the greatest champion in history; Marciano lost 50 pounds and got in good shape for the filming, Ali didnt take it seriously, and wound up getting beat to the body so much during the production that his arms, ribs, etc were badly bruised and Ali requested time off from filming and asking for additional funds. The stories surrounding the circumstances go even further, where claims that Marciano actually dropped Ali during filming surfaced. Some say it is just a myth, others say it did happen, and others say that Marciano cheap shotted Ali and that is the reason why Ali hit canvas. Still, even at 45 years of age, Marciano made an impression on the next generation, with Ali saying many times since then that Marciano was unbelievably strong, hard to hit with a jab, and couldn't imagine what Marciano was like in his prime. He also went a step further saying Marciano was better than Joe Frazier.
good stuff and a good compilation of some of the facts that were out there, Marciano felt he could beat all of the men including Liston, he sensed that he had the animal instinct to out-will and out heart Sonny but I am glad Marciano thought of his legacy instead of the $ he loved because the mind sometimes in not in sync with the body and with Marciano's style you need it all, he said that the great Joe Louis, his idol stayed too long and it was a thought that stayed with him. Good for Marciano, a smart, smart man and he fought the best of his day and more importantly got out at the right time when he was losing the drive. 49-0 with 43KO's and 5 defenses against the number 1 contender unheard of
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