Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-15-2013, 09:38 PM   #1
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,417
vCash: 1000
Default The Top 100 Pound for Pound All-Time Greats


01 - Sam Langford
02 - Harry Greb
03 - Sugar Ray Robinson
04 - Henry Armstrong
05 - Ezzard Charles
06 - Bob Fitzsimmons
07 - Muhammad Ali
08 - Joe Gans
09 - Joe Louis
10 - Roberto Duran.
11 - Benny Leonard
12 - Mickey Walker
13 - Willie Pep
14 - Barney Ross
15 - Archie Moore
16 - Ray Leonard
17 - George Dixon
18 - Terry McGovern
19 - Packey McFarland
20 - Pernell Whitaker
21 - Tony Canzoneri
22 - Jimmy McLarnin
23 - Sandy Saddler
24 - Stanley Ketchel
25 - Charley Burley
26 - Holman Williams
27 - Billy Conn
28 - Gene Tunney
29 - Roy Jones
30 - Joe Walcott
31 - Carlos Monzon
32 - Jimmy Wilde
33 - Eder Jofre
34 - Marvin Hagler
35 - Julio Cesar Chavez
36 - Tommy Gibbons
37 - Kid Gavilan
38 - Jack Britton
39 - Emile Griffith
40 - Jose Napoles
41 - Alexis Arguello
42 - Michael Spinks
43 - Tommy Loughran
44 - Thomas Hearns
45 - Jimmy Bivins
46 - Ike Williams
47 - Floyd Mayweather
48 - Manny Pacquiao
49 - Tommy Ryan
50 - Jack Dillon
51 - Bernard Hopkins
52 - Carlos Ortiz
53 - Fighting Harada
54 - Ruben Olivares
55 Evander Holyfield
56 - Young Corbett III
57 - Mike Gibbons
58 Ted Kid Lewis
59 - Freddie Welsh
60 - Freddie Steele
61 - Lou Ambers
62 - Salvador Sanchez
63 - Wilfredo Gomez
64 - Vicente Saldivar
65 - Rocky Marciano
66 - Abe Attell
67 - Manuel Ortiz
68 - Harold Johnson
69 - Dick Tiger
70 - Luis Manuel Rodriguez
71 - Carmen Basilio
72 - Carlos Zarate
73 - Miguel Canto
74 - Oscar De La Hoya
75 - Azumah Nelson
76 - Mike McCallum
77 - Lary Holmes
78 - Bob Foster
79 - Teddy Yarosz
80 - Jim Driscoll
81 - Panama Al Brown
82 - Pascual Perez
83 - Lloyd Marshall
84 Jake LaMotta
85 - Juan Manuel Marquez
86 Wilfred Benitez
87 Nonpareil Jack Dempsey
88 Erik Morales
89 Marco Antonio Barrera
90 - Young Griffo
91 - Fritzie Zivic
92 - Joe Frazier
93 - Pete Herman
94 - Lennox Lewis
95 - Jack "Kid" Berg
96 - Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
97 - James Toney
98 - Nicolino Locche
99 - Jung Koo Chang
100-George Foreman


The Details: Part One, 100-91
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Details: Part Two, 90-81
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Details: Part Three, 80-71
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Details: Part Four, 70-61
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Details: Part Five, 60-51
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Details: Part Six, 50-41
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Details: Part Seven, 40-31
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Details: Part Eight, 30-21
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Details: Part Nine, 21-11
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Details: Part Ten, 1-10
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]



**For anyone reading this thread for the first time, it won't make any sense. The opening post, which originally carried a suggestion of fifty names in loose tiers has been worked up to a firmer 100, and then more.**
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 02-15-2013, 09:49 PM   #2
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,088
vCash: 475
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

Move Mickey Walker. Replace with George Dixon.

Whitaker isn't two whole tiers above Chavez. Replace him with Ortiz.

Where's Fighting Harada. I suggest adding him without dropping anyone (but if you had to he's clearly above Zarate).

Carlos Ortiz instead of McAuliffe.

Michael Spinks instead of Tommy Hearns.
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2013, 10:44 PM   #3
the cobra
Awesomeizationism!
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,980
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

Drop Rocky to the bottom tier or lose him altogether. Just up against the other unbeaten guy, I don't like him over Mayweather at all. I feel Pac, Chavez, and Hearns all belong on the same level as Arguello and above M. Ortiz.

Agree with LR on Harada and Spinks. Lose Zarate for one of them.

Also, I'd drop Jofre down to the Chavez/Arguello/whatever tier.
the cobra is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2013, 10:46 PM   #4
Boxed Ears
Irony Himmler
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Nakalenisuka, Russia
Posts: 24,180
vCash: 26665
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

delete

Last edited by Boxed Ears; 06-04-2013 at 07:03 AM.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2013, 11:42 PM   #5
Johnstown
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Johnstown PA
Posts: 2,850
vCash: 500
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

Ali nowhere? i understand he had some flaws..but so did Jones? what the hell?
Johnstown is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 01:29 AM   #6
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,088
vCash: 475
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnstown View Post
Ali nowhere? i understand he had some flaws..but so did Jones? what the hell?
We should be shot for missing that.
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 01:34 AM   #7
Johnstown
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Johnstown PA
Posts: 2,850
vCash: 500
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

I actually am not real big on people who rank Ali as number 1 or even 2 behind Robinson pound for pound...seeing as he did have some flaws in the proper boxing skill department..but so did guys like hearns and jones and many others...Ali has to be in at least the top 10 p4p (and really higher).
Johnstown is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 01:37 AM   #8
Johnstown
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Johnstown PA
Posts: 2,850
vCash: 500
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

I thought it was some new boxing hipster thing that everyone knew about but me...that you don't give Ali a ranking on p4p lists.
Johnstown is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 03:25 AM   #9
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
The rules:

1) You cannot suggest removing a fighter all-together without suggesting replacement and which tier he should be in.

2) You cannot add a fighter to the fifty without removing one.

3) You cannot move a fighter from one tier to another without suggesting with whom he should be swapped if you had to swap him.

4) No moving Mickey Walker.


Tier I

Harry Greb, Bob Fitzsimmons, Sam Langford, Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson, Ezzard Charles


Tier II
Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Mickey Walker, Archie Moore, Roberto Duran, Packey McFarland, Joe Louis, Willie Pep, Joe Walcott.

Tier III
George Dixon, Eder Jofre, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Sugar Ray Leonard, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin.

Tier IV
Gene Tunney, Ruben Olivares, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones, Terry McGovern, Billy Conn, Kid Gavilan, Sandy Saddler, Stanley Ketchel.

Tier V
Manuel Ortiz, Alexis Arguello, Jimmy Wilde, Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith, Jack Britton, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Jimmy Bivins, Rocky Marciano.

Tier VI

Carlos Zarate, Salvador Sanchez, Julio Cesar Chavez, Evander Holyfield, Jack McAuliffe, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, Thomas Hearns.
The things that stand out for me:

Fitzsimmons out, B. Leonard in (and then that tier would seem accurate to me).

Walcott down, Dixon up.

Ketchel out for Napoles - can't be rating Gavilan a clear level above Napoles. I see a lot of people do it, which is quite strange. I won't debate Ketchel's potential, but Napoles did rule a division slightly too big for him - along with a very good pre-title career.

Obviously Ali, I. Williams, C. Ortiz and Rodriguez need to be in there. The latter two, in my opinion, should be around the same level as Napoles and Gavilan in that #28-32 range and clearly above, say, Hagler.

Griffith is one of the most difficult to rate.

Also, I don't particularly agree with Jofre in tier three. Perhaps Burley and H. Williams could stay, but on the lower end.
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 05:03 AM   #10
anj
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: good
Posts: 1,882
vCash: 300
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
The rules:

1) You cannot suggest removing a fighter all-together without suggesting replacement and which tier he should be in.

2) You cannot add a fighter to the fifty without removing one.

3) You cannot move a fighter from one tier to another without suggesting with whom he should be swapped if you had to swap him.

4) No moving Mickey Walker.


Tier I

Harry Greb, Bob Fitzsimmons, Sam Langford, Henry Armstrong, Sugar Ray Robinson, Ezzard Charles


Tier II
Benny Leonard, Joe Gans, Mickey Walker, Archie Moore, Roberto Duran, Packey McFarland, Joe Louis, Willie Pep, Joe Walcott.

Tier III
George Dixon, Eder Jofre, Charley Burley, Holman Williams, Sugar Ray Leonard, Barney Ross, Tony Canzoneri, Jimmy McLarnin.

Tier IV
Gene Tunney, Ruben Olivares, Pernell Whitaker, Roy Jones, Terry McGovern, Billy Conn, Kid Gavilan, Sandy Saddler, Stanley Ketchel.

Tier V
Manuel Ortiz, Alexis Arguello, Jimmy Wilde, Jose Napoles, Emile Griffith, Jack Britton, Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler, Jimmy Bivins, Rocky Marciano.

Tier VI

Carlos Zarate, Salvador Sanchez, Julio Cesar Chavez, Evander Holyfield, Jack McAuliffe, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, Thomas Hearns.
Where's Muhammad Ali, put him in. Take Zarate out. I'd take Manuel Ortiz out.
Jimmy Wilde is waaay too low.
Joe Walcott is waaay too high - not a top 50 for me.
Pernell Whitaker, Pacquiao are waaay too low.
S.R.Leonard is too low.
Where's Carlos Ortiz and Fighting Harada?
Emile Griffith out, Michael Spinks in.
Definitely not feeling Jimmy Bivins, or Jack McAuliffe.
Oscar De La Hoya is in the bottom region of the top 50 imo.
Jack Britton in the bottom part of top 50 at best.
anj is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 05:07 AM   #11
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,417
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

OK so first thing's first, Ali is going in (he's top tier - i must have deleted his name at some point and not re-typed it). But who to take out?
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 05:09 AM   #12
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,417
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

I took out Zarate. But I'm sad.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 05:10 AM   #13
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 36,417
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Walcott down, Dixon up.
Really considering this, too. Why do you think Dixon is clearly above Walcott?
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 05:27 AM   #14
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,088
vCash: 475
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

Also, you don't have Loughran. Certainly he rates above Sanchez?

Outside shout to Rosenbloom. Although no clue where to put him. Or Ted Lewis. Or Carlos Ortiz. Or Freddie Miller. Or Tommy Ryan.
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2013, 05:46 AM   #15
Manassa
-
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ESB since '05
Posts: 3,883
vCash: 75
Default Re: Help me sort out this top 50 pound for pound

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain View Post
Really considering this, too. Why do you think Dixon is clearly above Walcott?
Only as clearly as B. Leonard over Pep or something. You know yourself about that bantamweight-featherweight gap and how hard it is to jump. It was all a lot less organised back then of course, and I do believe the general boxing knowledge back then was less widespread (though conditions were tougher to almost make up for it), but nevertheless, a younger George Dixon was reportedly the great boxer of the day who was, quite importantly, a real ring innovator who shared his secrets with Walcott himself. I never like to take into account fame or political influence and things like that, but the invention or at least original implementation of boxing methods and techniques goes a long way in my book.
Both boxers fought significantly heavier opponents and both suffer incomplete records. They were also affected by racism. Dixon in particular - I have heard - deserved more decisions than given credit for.
Manassa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013