Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Boxing Training/Amateur Boxing


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-04-2013, 06:35 AM   #1
Diomedes
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saigon
Posts: 18
vCash: 3900
Default Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

I lift at home, never liked gyms. There are plusses and minuses but on the whole, I prefer lifting at home.

One of the problems training at home, alone, is that I don't have a spotter. Now and then I've had to do the roll of shame as I fail on a rep at benchpressing. Another downside, I think I am coming to realise, is that I have nobody who can critique my form for me.

The most weight I can put on the terribly shitty bar I have is 100kg. I can only bench that for 4 or 5 reps at present (which I'm pretty embarrassed about considering it's what I weigh right now) - though that may be a psychological limitation as I'm trying to avoid a 100kg roll of shame, which I find unpleasant.

At that weight, I am noticing a very slight pain in my left shoulder. It's a small amount of pain but also... perhaps a sensation that something's not quite... in the right place, if that makes any sense. I find myself rolling it around and a bit of popping or something, afterwards. No such problem on the right.

I'm suspecting that I have to stop training at that weight, which shames me further. Does anyone have any advice, or thoughts on what might be causing it, or can from a relatively qualified position tell me that I'm just being a ***** and it's nothing to worry about? If I do drop the weight, will it ever be right to move back up? I am steadily losing weight but I don't want to always be lifting less than my own bodyweight.

I should note, my grip is barely wider than shoulder-width, as the bar is not full length and the holders on my bench are close to the plates, forcing me to grip inside of them. Could that be a part of the problem?
Diomedes is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-04-2013, 06:53 AM   #2
efc85
non entity
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: liverpool
Posts: 657
vCash: 2770
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Rotator cuff maybe? Have it checked out, if you damage that you won't be training for a long time
efc85 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 07:52 AM   #3
dealt_with
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,182
vCash: 500
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
I lift at home, never liked gyms. There are plusses and minuses but on the whole, I prefer lifting at home.

One of the problems training at home, alone, is that I don't have a spotter. Now and then I've had to do the roll of shame as I fail on a rep at benchpressing. Another downside, I think I am coming to realise, is that I have nobody who can critique my form for me.

The most weight I can put on the terribly shitty bar I have is 100kg. I can only bench that for 4 or 5 reps at present (which I'm pretty embarrassed about considering it's what I weigh right now) - though that may be a psychological limitation as I'm trying to avoid a 100kg roll of shame, which I find unpleasant.

At that weight, I am noticing a very slight pain in my left shoulder. It's a small amount of pain but also... perhaps a sensation that something's not quite... in the right place, if that makes any sense. I find myself rolling it around and a bit of popping or something, afterwards. No such problem on the right.

I'm suspecting that I have to stop training at that weight, which shames me further. Does anyone have any advice, or thoughts on what might be causing it, or can from a relatively qualified position tell me that I'm just being a ***** and it's nothing to worry about? If I do drop the weight, will it ever be right to move back up? I am steadily losing weight but I don't want to always be lifting less than my own bodyweight.

I should note, my grip is barely wider than shoulder-width, as the bar is not full length and the holders on my bench are close to the plates, forcing me to grip inside of them. Could that be a part of the problem?
Do you do just as much pulling work? Rows etc.? Rotator Cuff work? Bench is just an exercise that will mess up your shoulders if you don't rest enough and perform complimentary exercises, regardless of form.
dealt_with is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 08:07 AM   #4
Diomedes
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saigon
Posts: 18
vCash: 3900
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Quote:
Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post
Do you do just as much pulling work? Rows etc.? Rotator Cuff work? Bench is just an exercise that will mess up your shoulders if you don't rest enough and perform complimentary exercises, regardless of form.
I do chin-ups and upright rows (I am aware this exercise can be dangerous - I only lift to nipple level, maybe a tad lower even, to keep it safe). I find bent-over rows uncomfortable for my back, so I avoid them. Aside from them, deadlifts, but I doubt they're relevant.

Looking a few things up, I'm wondering if it's to do with my elbow positioning. With the close grip I'm forced into, I think my elbows might be at an awkward angle wider than my hands and shoulders.
Diomedes is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 11:21 AM   #5
viru§™
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,143
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
I do chin-ups and upright rows (I am aware this exercise can be dangerous - I only lift to nipple level, maybe a tad lower even, to keep it safe). I find bent-over rows uncomfortable for my back, so I avoid them. Aside from them, deadlifts, but I doubt they're relevant.

Looking a few things up, I'm wondering if it's to do with my elbow positioning. With the close grip I'm forced into, I think my elbows might be at an awkward angle wider than my hands and shoulders.
It may just be some muscle imbalances caused by your exercise selection. You need to add some lifts where you fully retract your shoulder blades i.e. row variations, band pull aparts, face pulls etc.

Stop doing bench if it hurts, it'll only get worse. Shoulder injuries are the worst, I know from experience.
viru§™ is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 09:33 AM   #6
MadScientist
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 8
vCash: 500
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

I was in a car accident recently and went to a physical therapist. I complained that anytime I did pushups my left shoulder would feel numb, or irritate me for a day or two afterwards. He explained the same thing everyone else is mentioning. My back muscles are weaker than my chest and arm muscles, so I'm straining my neck/back by doing too much too soon. He gave me a simple routine to strengthen my back/neck first. It really helped a lot. He also mentioned that this imbalance was connected to the fact that I had bad posture while sitting (shoulders rolled forward.)

If you ask me, your mentality is all wrong. This whole idea of being embarrassed, or trying to put up as much weight as you can. Are you trying to compete for weight lifting, or body building? If not, I don't think you should be embarrassed, or worry. You're pushing yourself for all the wrong reasons. You should do what benefits you the most, not what impresses others.

I suggest dropping the weight significantly for a while and focusing on building your back muscles with rows, shoulder blade squeezes, etc. Your shoulders can be built separately as well using things like military presses. If you really wanted to, you could do an experiment and do just pushups for a week. It takes 2 weeks to start losing muscle anyways, so you won't be in any danger of that. If your shoulder is still bothering you from pushups alone, your back muscles are WAY weaker than your chest muscles. You need to focus solely on back/shoulder/neck for a while and start small (maybe no weights at all).

I don't know what expectations exist that you're applying to yourself. Where is there a rule book that says every man should be able to lift X weight, or have X" muscles? Just be you, and lift the weights that accomplish what you need to accomplish. Muscles require a ton of food (costs money, takes time), they weigh more than fat (makes you heavy, bulky) and not everyone is attracted to them (I know more girls who don't like big muscles than girls who do). Honestly, muscles aren't by default the greatest thing in life. If you have a specific purpose for them (i.e. You're running, fighting, etc.) then build just what you need to be excellent at that activity. Otherwise you might be over-doing it. Just my two cents. It's your life.
MadScientist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 11:02 AM   #7
Diomedes
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saigon
Posts: 18
vCash: 3900
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
I was in a car accident recently and went to a physical therapist. I complained that anytime I did pushups my left shoulder would feel numb, or irritate me for a day or two afterwards. He explained the same thing everyone else is mentioning. My back muscles are weaker than my chest and arm muscles, so I'm straining my neck/back by doing too much too soon. He gave me a simple routine to strengthen my back/neck first. It really helped a lot. He also mentioned that this imbalance was connected to the fact that I had bad posture while sitting (shoulders rolled forward.)
My sitting posture probably isn't great either.

Quote:
If you ask me, your mentality is all wrong. This whole idea of being embarrassed, or trying to put up as much weight as you can. Are you trying to compete for weight lifting, or body building? If not, I don't think you should be embarrassed, or worry. You're pushing yourself for all the wrong reasons. You should do what benefits you the most, not what impresses others.
I'm a very competitive person, but it's not about impressing others - it's about self respect. I want to be at the very least, better than average in every way that I consider important. It might sound egotistical as ****, but this is about my internal thought processes and I don't go around as some puffed up braggart, but in most ways, I am above average. The importance of that is not that other people think so of me - I'm not a ****y bastard going around boasting of this or that - the idea sickens me (even though it might seem like that's what I'm doing right now)- it's about having a quiet knowledge about myself. I compete against my own expectations of myself, derived from my perception or knowledge of others. I look out for studies and information about what the average guy can do, I look up information about say, entry requirements to different branches of militaries, I try and find metrics about others that set standards for me to beat.

It's not about looks either. My wife complains frequently that my shoulders are getting bigger, which she doesn't like. I want strength, and if I look better (in my eyes at least), that's cool too. And I'm aware I'm not doing everything possible to achieve that - limitations in my equipment mean there are some exercises I would like to do but don't. I am hoping over time to improve what I have available, but this isn't a big apartment we have and I think I've gotten away with things pretty well taking up living room space with my shitty little bench! Lucky to hang my heavy bag outside the apartment near the elevators.

Anyway, to bring things back on track from my rambling, I feel that I can respect myself if I can lift 1.5* my bodyweight at benchpress. I have different goals for other exercises, but that one feels right for me for benchpress. I've only been lifting since about november, after months of not being allowed to exercise at all following a very dangerous tropical virus that hit me a little over a year ago, that went to my heart (and lungs actually). Viral myocarditis, damaged heart tissue, big scary time and then forced slothfulness. But it's all been fine since I got into a good routine, and when I was doing less reps at 100 I didn't notice it either. Since pushing the 4th or 5th rep, that's when I've begun noticing this. If I rest for a few days, then just train with a lower weight, it doesn't seem to give me the slight pain and popping or crunching or whatever the hell it is.

Quote:
I suggest dropping the weight significantly for a while and focusing on building your back muscles with rows, shoulder blade squeezes, etc. Your shoulders can be built separately as well using things like military presses. If you really wanted to, you could do an experiment and do just pushups for a week. It takes 2 weeks to start losing muscle anyways, so you won't be in any danger of that. If your shoulder is still bothering you from pushups alone, your back muscles are WAY weaker than your chest muscles. You need to focus solely on back/shoulder/neck for a while and start small (maybe no weights at all).
Heh, actually I void both military presses and pushups because they seem to cause problems related to the costochondral separation I got a few years ago while doing weighted pushups. Ripped a rib off from the sternum, and so ****ing annoying, just takes forever to heal and pops off again if I start doing a lot of pushups. For some reason, benching doesn't aggravate that, so I've given up pushups entirely. Military press... I find it extremely difficult to keep form just right so that it doesn't also cause issues in my rib cage.

Quote:
I don't know what expectations exist that you're applying to yourself. Where is there a rule book that says every man should be able to lift X weight, or have X" muscles? Just be you, and lift the weights that accomplish what you need to accomplish. Muscles require a ton of food (costs money, takes time), they weigh more than fat (makes you heavy, bulky) and not everyone is attracted to them (I know more girls who don't like big muscles than girls who do). Honestly, muscles aren't by default the greatest thing in life. If you have a specific purpose for them (i.e. You're running, fighting, etc.) then build just what you need to be excellent at that activity. Otherwise you might be over-doing it. Just my two cents. It's your life.
The only real need I can define for myself physically, is a psychological need. I'm a teacher, so apart from having the ability to stand and speak at a decent volume for hours at a time, there are no physical needs there. I'm not training at boxing, muay thai, or BJJ - all of which I have in the past - partially because there aren't as many clubs here in Saigon, at least not ones that aren't designed for fancy rich expats with more money than me, willing to pay more than a Vietnamese person earns in a month to train, and located across the other side of the city where all the rest of the expats live...

Anyway, thanks for the advice. Pay day is soon, so I'm going to head back to the sports stores and see what else I can pick up, that doesn't take up too much space. I'll see if I can fit a longer bar without blocking the door, and go with a more conventional, wider grip.
Diomedes is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 11:06 AM   #8
Diomedes
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saigon
Posts: 18
vCash: 3900
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Quote:
Originally Posted by viru§™ View Post
It may just be some muscle imbalances caused by your exercise selection. You need to add some lifts where you fully retract your shoulder blades i.e. row variations, band pull aparts, face pulls etc.

Stop doing bench if it hurts, it'll only get worse. Shoulder injuries are the worst, I know from experience.
The problem I have with bent over rows is that I seem to get back pain from it. My back can handle it during deadlifts, but it's something about holding the weigh stationary (from my lower back's perspective) versus keeping it in motion. Without something to rest my chest against for support, what would you recommend that helps develop the back pulling on a horizontal plane (I've got vertical covered both ways, with the chin-ups and upright rows, I'd say)?

I would do some sort of inverted pushups if I could, but I cant see where or how I could rig that up.
Diomedes is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 04:26 PM   #9
MadScientist
newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 8
vCash: 500
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Re: Bent Rows
It sounds to me like you need to start from the basics and see if you can train your muscles. Support muscles are often very weak for one exercise, even though they're strong for another. It's like having a chair with 4 legs. The one in the front right corner is pencil thin, while the rest are thick. If you sit anywhere else on the chair, it's fine. "Good chair" you say. Then you scoot to the front right and it snaps. "That piece of shit!" It's not the whole chair that is the problem. It's the support muscles. You might have GIANT primary muscles able to lift zillions of pounds, but if your support muscles are tiny you're just going to injure yourself. I suggest starting back from zero weights. Just do things like shoulder blade squeezes or bent rows with zero weights. Yeah, you'll feel like a ***** (especially based on your self-image) but you'll get to the point where you can lift without injuring yourself. That's what really matters. Sounds like you already injured yourself once by working too hard. It's not worth it man...

Re: Expectations
Look, I'm not your life coach, or even your friend. I'm some guy on the internet. You don't have to care about a damn thing I say. What I will share is that as soon as you said "I feel that I can respect myself if I can lift 1.5* my bodyweight at benchpress." That was all I needed to hear. Consider this a life less from a sidewalk philosopher (also, Buddha, who said it long before me.) If you go through life telling yourself that things aren't ok until you reach a certain goal, you've already failed, because you've taken your self-respect away in order to earn it back again. Every journey unfolds one step, or day at a time. No matter how big of a badass you are, you're still going to step one foot in front of the other. If you set up these expectations for yourself, you're going to hate yourself until you reach them. Then you'll set up more expectations, and you'll hate yourself again until you reach those. You'll spend more time hating yourself than celebrating. We spend 99% of our time moving from destination to destination. 1% of our time arriving at the destination itself. If you're only happy when you've arrived, how much of your life will you get to enjoy?

Best of luck to you. You sound like a really determined guy. I bet if you just put energy into what you love without any expectations, you'd still achieve greatness.
MadScientist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 05:28 PM   #10
PugilistStudent
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 362
vCash: 500
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

It would be the rotar cuff, chances are you are pronating you scapula at the top of the rep (rolling your shoulders forward aka taking them off the bench) which is wrong, its a common error which puts alot of strain on your rotar cuff.

Keep the muscles in your back "packed" throughout the rep and do not use a grip that goes beyond your arms flaring out to a 45 degree angle, even then that is the extreme of where you can safely bench.

Take a week off benching and resume using the tips I laid out and see if the problem persists. If it does than you should probably just go to a commercial gym with a day pass and ask if one of the personal trainers or staff there (the staff is sometimes very knowledgable) can critique your form and tell them why. Go from there.
PugilistStudent is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 09:20 AM   #11
Diomedes
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Saigon
Posts: 18
vCash: 3900
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Quote:
Originally Posted by PugilistStudent View Post
It would be the rotar cuff, chances are you are pronating you scapula at the top of the rep (rolling your shoulders forward aka taking them off the bench) which is wrong, its a common error which puts alot of strain on your rotar cuff.
I have no idea if I do that or not, but now I know what to check for next time - taking a few days break before getting a longer bar and changing grip a bit.

Quote:
Keep the muscles in your back "packed" throughout the rep and do not use a grip that goes beyond your arms flaring out to a 45 degree angle, even then that is the extreme of where you can safely bench.

Take a week off benching and resume using the tips I laid out and see if the problem persists. If it does than you should probably just go to a commercial gym with a day pass and ask if one of the personal trainers or staff there (the staff is sometimes very knowledgable) can critique your form and tell them why. Go from there.
Sounds like good advice, thanks.
Diomedes is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2013, 09:55 AM   #12
dealt_with
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 3,182
vCash: 500
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diomedes View Post
I do chin-ups and upright rows (I am aware this exercise can be dangerous - I only lift to nipple level, maybe a tad lower even, to keep it safe). I find bent-over rows uncomfortable for my back, so I avoid them. Aside from them, deadlifts, but I doubt they're relevant.

Looking a few things up, I'm wondering if it's to do with my elbow positioning. With the close grip I'm forced into, I think my elbows might be at an awkward angle wider than my hands and shoulders.
Chin ups and upright rows aren't going to help your shoulder. It's no surprise you have rotator cuff issues. You need to be moving something in the opposite direction of your bench and you should be doing external rotation exercises, Cuban presses etc. Just make sure you stop benching.
dealt_with is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2013, 04:30 AM   #13
carrot4u
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: somwhere in asia
Posts: 1
vCash: 87
Default Re: Very slight pain and discomfort in shoulder while benching

Quote:
Originally Posted by dealt_with View Post
Chin ups and upright rows aren't going to help your shoulder. It's no surprise you have rotator cuff issues. You need to be moving something in the opposite direction of your bench and you should be doing external rotation exercises, Cuban presses etc. Just make sure you stop benching.


Spot on, biggest cause of shoulder injury from working out, is when guys over develop there chest and don't put the corresponding effort in to their back.

This results in misalignment of the shoulder and interrupts your musco skeletal efficacy...resulting in all manner of shoulder problems.
carrot4u is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Boxing Training/Amateur Boxing

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013