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Old 03-04-2013, 04:15 AM   #16
darryl1914
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonito Smoak View Post
Floyd Mayweather Jr

Where fighting top 10 ranked guys with titles actually lowers your ATG standing
Only to "The Haters.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:19 AM   #17
Bolanos
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVC View Post
In the opinions of many experts whom I've talked with, most of them agree that Floyd Mayweather is currently a top 25 ATG. I agree with this.

I believe that wins over Martinez, Garcia, Canelo/Trout, Pac, Devon, Matthyse, Guerrero could potentially pull him to a top 15-20 spot

I really hope he fights those guys in his last 6 fights


who may these experts be?
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:32 AM   #18
prelude
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Top 15-20 ATG is not for coward. Top 15-20 ATG will never be afraid for their health.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:05 AM   #19
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

McGrain did a Top 100 P4P list on the classic forum. This is what the Top 20 looks like:

01 – Sam Langford
02 – Harry Greb
03 – Sugar Ray Robinson
04 – Henry Armstrong
05 – Bob Fitzsimmons
06 – Ezzard Charles
07 – Benny Leonard
08 – Muhammad Ali
---------------------------------------
09 – Willie Pep
10 – Joe Louis
11 – Roberto Duran
12 – Joe Gans
13 – Packey McFarland
14 – Archie Moore
15 – Sugar Ray Leonard
16 – Mickey Walker
-------------------------------------------
17 – Barney Ross
18 – Terry McGovern
19 – Tony Canzoneri
20 – Pernell Whitaker

There's no way Mayweather can break into the top 17.

With wins over:
A recovered Manny Pacquiao
Canelo-Trout Winner
Golovkin maybe AT 160lbs (Mayweather will be too late for Martinez)
Robert Guerrero
Someone very good
+
Champion for around 17 years it would be
+
ATG Skills set - get's hit the least
+
W Juan Manuel Marquez
W Jose Luis Castillo
W Miguel Cotto
W Diego Corrales
W Genaro Hernandez
W Ricky Hatton
+
Reputation of being the Greatest 130lber of All Time

Although Whitaker is better than Mayweather, Mayweather would have had a better legacy than Whitaker.

Mayweather would be at least on par with Canzoneri, maybe just behind Barney Ross.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

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Originally Posted by prelude View Post
Top 15-20 ATG is not for coward. Top 15-20 ATG will never be afraid for their health.
Your low level of grammar aside, one can see that your level of reasoning is waaaay below that of anyone who has posted in this thread this far.

Unfortunately, you have deliberately or inadvertently opened the floodgate to your low-life type who will soon *******ize this well intentioned thread.

Honestly, I, for one, I'm thinking the thread should help me continue on my educational journey through this sweet science thing...

P34c3
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:13 AM   #21
duwdu
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anj View Post
McGrain did a Top 100 P4P list on the classic forum. This is what the Top 20 looks like:

01 Sam Langford
02 Harry Greb
03 Sugar Ray Robinson
04 Henry Armstrong
05 Bob Fitzsimmons
06 Ezzard Charles
07 Benny Leonard
08 Muhammad Ali
---------------------------------------
09 Willie Pep
10 Joe Louis
11 Roberto Duran
12 Joe Gans
13 Packey McFarland
14 Archie Moore
15 Sugar Ray Leonard
16 Mickey Walker
-------------------------------------------
17 Barney Ross
18 Terry McGovern
19 Tony Canzoneri
20 Pernell Whitaker

There's no way Mayweather can break into the top 17.

With wins over:
A recovered Manny Pacquiao
Canelo-Trout Winner
Golovkin maybe AT 160lbs (Mayweather will be too late for Martinez)
Robert Guerrero
Someone very good
+
Champion for around 17 years it would be
+
ATG Skills set - get's hit the least
+
W Juan Manuel Marquez
W Jose Luis Castillo
W Miguel Cotto
W Diego Corrales
W Genaro Hernandez
W Ricky Hatton
+
Reputation of being the Greatest 130lber of All Time

Although Whitaker is better than Mayweather, Mayweather would have had a better legacy than Whitaker.

Mayweather would be at least on par with Canzoneri, maybe just behind Barney Ross.
This is the class of education I'm talking about. Thank you, anj.

P34c3
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:06 AM   #22
MarioBrothers
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anj View Post
McGrain did a Top 100 P4P list on the classic forum. This is what the Top 20 looks like:

01 Sam Langford
02 Harry Greb
03 Sugar Ray Robinson
04 Henry Armstrong
05 Bob Fitzsimmons
06 Ezzard Charles
07 Benny Leonard
08 Muhammad Ali
---------------------------------------
09 Willie Pep
10 Joe Louis
11 Roberto Duran
12 Joe Gans
13 Packey McFarland
14 Archie Moore
15 Sugar Ray Leonard
16 Mickey Walker
-------------------------------------------
17 Barney Ross
18 Terry McGovern
19 Tony Canzoneri
20 Pernell Whitaker

There's no way Mayweather can break into the top 17.

With wins over:
A recovered Manny Pacquiao
Canelo-Trout Winner
Golovkin maybe AT 160lbs (Mayweather will be too late for Martinez)
Robert Guerrero
Someone very good
+
Champion for around 17 years it would be
+
ATG Skills set - get's hit the least
+
W Juan Manuel Marquez
W Jose Luis Castillo
W Miguel Cotto
W Diego Corrales
W Genaro Hernandez
W Ricky Hatton
+
Reputation of being the Greatest 130lber of All Time

Although Whitaker is better than Mayweather, Mayweather would have had a better legacy than Whitaker.

Mayweather would be at least on par with Canzoneri, maybe just behind Barney Ross.
a win over guerrero, winner of trout/canelo, and a win again over p4p#3 and 147 champ marquez would put him up 5 places. His career is very similar to SRL without the L
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:26 AM   #23
anj
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioBrothers View Post
a win over guerrero, winner of trout/canelo, and a win again over p4p#3 and 147 champ marquez would put him up 5 places. His career is very similar to SRL without the L
His career is not very similar to SRL.

SRL's legacy is defined not by the random fighters but by the ATG's.
The way he beat Duran in the second fight, causing the 'no mas' due to SRL's superior skills set and the ability to mentally break an opponent down.
SRL also H2H OWNS Mayweather - no one has Mayweather beating SRL unless they literally just started to watch boxing.

SRL:
1. Hagler
2. Hearns
3. Duran
4. Benitez
5. Kalule

Mayweather:
1. Pacquiao
2. Marquez
3. Castillo
4. Canelo-Trout
5. Golovkin

- There really is no comparison.

Also:
Mayweather vs SRL's opponents:
L Hearns (a BRUTAL loss. Mayweather's style especially makes him vulnerable)
D Duran
L Benitez
W Kalule

It's a lot easier to go 43-0 with Mayweather's resume than SRL's.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:36 AM   #24
PowerBack
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anj View Post
McGrain did a Top 100 P4P list on the classic forum. This is what the Top 20 looks like:

01 Sam Langford
02 Harry Greb
03 Sugar Ray Robinson
04 Henry Armstrong
05 Bob Fitzsimmons
06 Ezzard Charles
07 Benny Leonard
08 Muhammad Ali
---------------------------------------
09 Willie Pep
10 Joe Louis
11 Roberto Duran
12 Joe Gans
13 Packey McFarland
14 Archie Moore
15 Sugar Ray Leonard
16 Mickey Walker
-------------------------------------------
17 Barney Ross
18 Terry McGovern
19 Tony Canzoneri
20 Pernell Whitaker

There's no way Mayweather can break into the top 17.

With wins over:
A recovered Manny Pacquiao
Canelo-Trout Winner
Golovkin maybe AT 160lbs (Mayweather will be too late for Martinez)
Robert Guerrero
Someone very good
+
Champion for around 17 years it would be
+
ATG Skills set - get's hit the least
+
W Juan Manuel Marquez
W Jose Luis Castillo
W Miguel Cotto
W Diego Corrales
W Genaro Hernandez
W Ricky Hatton
+
Reputation of being the Greatest 130lber of All Time

Although Whitaker is better than Mayweather, Mayweather would have had a better legacy than Whitaker.

Mayweather would be at least on par with Canzoneri, maybe just behind Barney Ross.
I know that none of them were at the top of their game, but is Marciano the only man to beat 3 top 20 ATGs? Quite impressive.
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:45 AM   #25
anj
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerBack View Post
I know that none of them were at the top of their game, but is Marciano the only man to beat 3 top 20 ATGs? Quite impressive.
It's impressive, but we can't give him that much credit to give him a Top 20 position.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:05 AM   #26
duwdu
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anj View Post
His career is not very similar to SRL.

SRL's legacy is defined not by the random fighters but by the ATG's.
The way he beat Duran in the second fight, causing the 'no mas' due to SRL's superior skills set and the ability to mentally break an opponent down.
SRL also H2H OWNS Mayweather - no one has Mayweather beating SRL unless they literally just started to watch boxing.

SRL:
1. Hagler
2. Hearns
3. Duran
4. Benitez
5. Kalule

Mayweather:
1. Pacquiao
2. Marquez
3. Castillo
4. Canelo-Trout
5. Golovkin

- There really is no comparison.

Also:
Mayweather vs SRL's opponents:
L Hearns (a BRUTAL loss. Mayweather's style especially makes him vulnerable)
D Duran
L Benitez
W Kalule

It's a lot easier to go 43-0 with Mayweather's resume than SRL's.
Whereas SRL's natural weight class is 147-160, FMJ's is 130/135-147, so I think it's unfair to cross-polinate him (FMJ) with the best 154's boxing has seen so far and expect him to dominate - or even beat them.

What I think could be more plausible is the line you toed in an earlier post in this thread - do it p4p & see whether what FMJ accomplished at, say, 135, is less than, equal to, or greater than what other greats did at their own more natural weight class; for example SRL/Hearns at an average 154.

I think your earlier take on Mayweather vis-a-vis Whitaker is right on the money.

P34c3
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:13 AM   #27
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duwdu View Post
Whereas SRL's natural weight class is 147-160, FMJ's is 130/135-147, so I think it's unfair to cross-polinate him (FMJ) with the best 154's boxing has seen so far and expect him to dominate - or even beat them.

What I think could be more plausible is the line you toed in an earlier post in this thread - do it p4p & see whether what FMJ accomplished at, say, 135, is less than, equal to, or greater than what other greats did at their own more natural weight class; for example SRL/Hearns at an average 154.

I think your earlier take on Mayweather vis-a-vis Whitaker is right on the money.

P34c3
SRL's natural weight class is actually 147lbs. Nevertheless, he looks more impressive at 147lbs then Mayweather does at 130lbs, and Mayweather is the greatest of all time at 130lbs.

The thing is..for P4P rankings, what makes Duran Top 10 is not just what he did to make him the greatest lightweight of all time arguably, but it was his past prime run at middleweight etc. So it's not completely right to compare them at their natural weight class only, if they have been able to achieve greatness at a weightclass that isn't their own. It's about their whole legacy and if they can do great things despite being past their prime, of course that adds to their greatness.

Either way, Mayweather would have to move up to 160lbs and also beat all of the others to be worthy of being in with the top men. People at the classic boxing forum may still disagree and think this would only warrant a top 30 position.

EDIT: I think I misread your post. If Hearns and Benitez and Duran were in their prime weight, they would beat Mayweather if Mayweather had the same prime weight.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:21 AM   #28
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Also, remember that Duran, whom you have given star credit to SRL for, actually jumped up two weight classes to challenge - and beat - SRL in their first fight.

So, to me, Duran's 'No mas' was significant more for the perception and popularity of the two fighters at the time, rather than that Duran was a super threat to SRL's dominance of his own weight class at the time.

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Old 03-04-2013, 09:30 AM   #29
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duwdu View Post
Also, remember that Duran, whom you have given star credit to SRL for, actually jumped up two weight classes to challenge - and beat - SRL in their first fight.

So, to me, Duran's 'No mas' was significant more for the perception and popularity of the two fighters at the time, rather than that Duran was a super threat to SRL's dominance of his own weight class at the time.

P34c3
That win against SRL really cemented Duran's greatness in stone. SRL fought the wrong fight. That is one of the main reasons why Duran is Top 10, higher than SRL - but this doesn't have much bearing on SRL's greatness at the weight, especially considering he went to avenge his loss and also beat other ATG's.
It's not accurate to say he 'jumped' two weight classes. He fought at 140lbs a handful of times before his last fight at lightweight, and had 8 fights leading to the SRL fight, with 1 being a great win against a Hall of Famer (Carlos Palomino).
I do believe Duran was better at lightweight though, and eventually weight issues and ring age got to Duran.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:44 AM   #30
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Default Re: Fighters Floyd Mayweather must fight to get 15-20 ATG status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anj View Post
EDIT: I think I misread your post. If Hearns and Benitez and Duran were in their prime weight, they would beat Mayweather if Mayweather had the same prime weight.
I'll have to beg to differ here...p4p, Duran's fierceness and perception would be similar to Pacquiao's, both toward Mayweather, and Mayweather would beat both. Before Pacquiao's recent KTFO loss/misfortune, he was generally but arguably percieved as being more durable and fierce than Duran, if not more so.

I believe Mayweather would also defeat both Benitez and Hearns, prime p4p. I won't say that of SRL, tho', and SRL would remain above FMJ in my historical rankings, at least for the foreseable future.

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