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Old 03-06-2013, 09:53 PM   #61
Clinton
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

At least you wrote,"it almost seems like they are now made to draw me in." How pompous of you. Nobody is trying to "draw you in." You are full of it and yourself.
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I try to avoid the Duran threads as much as I can, but it almost seems like they are now made to draw me in . The thread title assumes Duran is top 10. It isn't even a question in the thread title. Duran is great no doubt. I never said he wasn't. Lightweight reign and longevity and fighting the best he could. He fought everyone he could and he gets credit. Fought in a tough era also, but his lack of wins over fellow legends is what prevents him from being top 10. I am not sure why people think that is an insult. A guy is top 25 p4p and somehow I am insulting him because I don't think he is top 10. How is top 25 an insult? Simply put, I just don't see how his wins equal top 10. He should have been able to duplicate the Ray win and beat Benitez and Hearns.. But he lost to all those guys not close but onesided in divisions he had won titles.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:58 PM   #62
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

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when he fought Duran in 1980, just fighting Duran's fight shows he was not yet that top level fighter. Later he learned how to use everything to win a fight. Ray was on his second defense of his first title. Think of most great fighter and tell me if they were great at that point in their career. Hearns right after Cuevas? Whitaker near the same point was losing to Ramirez, yet we saw how well Pernell did in the rematch.
"...not yet that top level fighter.." even though he'd already stopped prime Benitez, a fighter that you consider one of the "fab 5," your expression.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:59 PM   #63
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

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Let's just all get it off our chests and admit it.

Leonard looked tepid in the Duran rematch, it was often running, not quality boxing.Duran looked crap.

It was a terrible fight, beyond Oscar vs Tito levels of badness.

IF duran didn't quit and it continued as is with Leonard most likely winning a clear uneventful decision, i think after the hysteria died down BOTH fighters would have taken a lot of flak.

Duran shamefully quitting disguised what a mediocre safety-first effort it was.Of course leonard might well have upped the offensive output and looked better later, once he was assured Duran had been entirely frustrated and didn't have that much on the night, who knows.

Fight was crap.
Well said!
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:06 PM   #64
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Leonard over Carlos Mendoza. Bold.
Ah, but Mendoza was shot when Duran got to him. Guy was coming off real difficult times heading into that fight, what with puberty and all, and hadn't yet recovered (do any of us ever really recover?). You're right though: going on name recognition alone, Mendoza would've topped the list. Well, him and Lloyd Marshall.

Duran beat Lloyd Marshall.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:57 PM   #65
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

Marshall was like 67. Still a better fighter then Mastaka Takayama.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:53 PM   #66
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Marshall was like 67. Still a better fighter then Mastaka Takayama.
What about his wife's brother, Yama "Mas" Takataka? GOAT Laotian boxer. Gave Duran absolute hell in the press conferences. Opened an antique shop down on 5th street a few years back. Tends to ramble on a bit, but a quality guy overall. I stabbed him.

And you thought "no Mas" was referring to Leonard.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:12 AM   #67
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

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What about his wife's brother, Yama "Mas" Takataka? GOAT Laotian boxer. Gave Duran absolute hell in the press conferences. Opened an antique shop down on 5th street a few years back. Tends to ramble on a bit, but a quality guy overall. I stabbed him.

And you thought "no Mas" was referring to Leonard.
All lies of a slanderous lying, mendacious, untruthful, lie-filled, dishonest, equivocating, nature. He said 'no boxeo'. And this is classic.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:28 AM   #68
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

Agree to disagree then. We will speak of this matter no mas. Oh, sorry, I mean, 'we will speak of this matter no boxeo.'


Like that even works.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:53 AM   #69
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

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Agree to disagree then. We will speak of this matter no mas. Oh, sorry, I mean, 'we will speak of this matter no boxeo.'


Like that even works.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:59 AM   #70
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

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That response neither makes sense nor does it have anything to do with what you typed. You wrote that you try to avoid Duran threads as much as you can, which is the 2nd lie in which I have caught you. Once again, you are NOTORIOUS for turning threads that have nothing to do with Duran into threads that focus on Duran. You have an agenda. We all get it.
not an agenda. If I read something which I think is wrong and gives a fighter too much credit I say what I believe and I bring facts.. It isn't only about Duran. I say the same about Floyd or any fighter I think has not beaten the best, yet is said to be the best of all time.
If I say a guy is not top 10 because he never beat many legends, and never knocked out a great fighter then that is a fact to me, but maybe not to others. I think being rated top 10 over a guy like Manny Pacman who fought and beat more greats than Duran would not be right. And saying Duran would have beat them had he been in shape does not make sense to me, since people said he didn't win because he was older and moved up too high in weight, so being in or out of shape wouldn't matter if those two facts were true. And those things are not explained by Duran fans. If he could not win because he was older and too high in weight, why does he need an excuse that he didn't train? According to his fans he couldn't win against Leonard or Hearns or Benitez anyway.
People love Duran and I understand that, when he won he was furious and impressive, but when he could not dictate the pace after moving up in competition he didn't do as well, and had the excuse of moving up in weight to use, regardless of the fact he moved up to 154 before Hearns,Leonard or Benitez ever did.

And what lie did anyone catch me in? There have been numerous threads on Duran which I ignore. But this is a boxing forum, so I figure people want to hear what I have to say, and lying is not something I do. As a matter of fact I have been very consistent in the over 4 years I have been on the forum.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:04 AM   #71
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

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At least you wrote,"it almost seems like they are now made to draw me in." How pompous of you. Nobody is trying to "draw you in." You are full of it and yourself.
pompous of me? That is not my personality to be honest. I am a humble guy who looks at boxing as facts and tries to be objective and I do not get mad and argue out here. And most of you know this.. This is a boxing forum, I come in here to enjoy the conversation..

How can I as an objective person say Duran is 1-10 when I do not believe it at all and I have criteria for thinking this. For me to rate Roberto as 1-10 when he really did not beat another ATG except Ray, and then he lost so decisively in the rematch would not make sense? Having 4 smiling faces still does not explain how Duran deserves to be top 10,, and what is interesting is you said I am full of myself, yet you are making this about me and not about Duran. So by talking about me, you are doing what you are saying I am pompous for suggesting. I should insert one of your smiling faces to this for effect.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:08 AM   #72
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

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"...not yet that top level fighter.." even though he'd already stopped prime Benitez, a fighter that you consider one of the "fab 5," your expression.
you remember things I said, but not too accurately. I have said that Benitez fought best at 154 than any other weight. He moved up and kept his speed and fought smarter than he had at 140 and 147. And Ray did well beating Benitez, but as Ray said he was a mirror image to Benitez, and being faster and with a deeper heart that worked with Wilfred, when most guys didn't have the speed to challenge Wilfred like that, so in a way the win over Wilfred shows that fighting Roberto he couldn't outspeed him being in front of him. That fight was Roberto's game and not Wilfred's. With Roberto he thought he would gut it out and fight Roberto's fight and beat him at his own game. Something Ray said in interviews "I wanted to beat that man at his own game! and I almost did!" I remember what he said word for word.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:11 AM   #73
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

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Originally Posted by lora View Post
Let's just all get it off our chests and admit it.

Leonard looked tepid in the Duran rematch, it was often running, not quality boxing.Duran looked crap.

It was a terrible fight, beyond Oscar vs Tito levels of badness.

IF duran didn't quit and it continued as is with Leonard most likely winning a clear uneventful decision, i think after the hysteria died down BOTH fighters would have taken a lot of flak.

Duran shamefully quitting disguised what a mediocre safety-first effort it was.Of course leonard might well have upped the offensive output and looked better later, once he was assured Duran had been entirely frustrated and didn't have that much on the night, who knows.

Fight was crap.
Hate this supposed 'boxing' that nowadays sees a fighter be praised to the f'n hilt
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:11 AM   #74
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Default Re: the win that got Duran into the top 10?

Leonard
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:16 AM   #75
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Yeah...
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