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Old 03-06-2013, 07:58 PM   #76
dinovelvet
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

You keep putting forward the same argument expecting a different response which would lead me to keep repeating myself.
I aint doing that , you're a tedious man to debate with.
I already posted reasons to my assumptions , go back and give more thought to my posts opposed to your own.
You skipped pased my previous post.
Be it right or wrong , my opinion on the matter is set in stone, nothing you say to me will change that.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:16 PM   #77
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
You keep putting forward the same argument expecting a different response which would lead me to keep repeating myself.
I aint doing that , you're a tedious man to debate with.
I already posted reasons to my assumptions , go back and give more thought to my posts opposed to your own.
You skipped pased my previous post.
Be it right or wrong , my opinion on the matter is set in stone, nothing you say to me will change that.
It's not that I'm tedious, it's that I'm not letting you off the hook for the nonsense you came out with.

I have agreed that generally, you have a fair point that boxing was often terribly biased against giving chances to black fighters in the early days. No argument there!

But well read posters have provided indisputable evidence that Harry Greb was one of the exceptions to this rule. They have given you primary sources and links showing that Greb was well respected by the black community for giving chances to black fighters (when it would have been so easy to dodge facing them).

Yet you refuse to acknowledge this, saying "my opinion on the matter is set in stone" while also admitting that you're not educated on Greb's phenomenal career and achievements.

In short...you admit that you hold an opinion that is "set in stone", while being uneducated on the subject.

Hmm...I rather think that it is you who are the "tedious man to debate with" on this thread.

Chaney over and out.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:48 AM   #78
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
I believe there to be a degree of truth in that statment.
Where exactly? Which fight or event in Greb's career has led you to believe that there is a degree of truth in that?
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:25 AM   #79
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

Hes just talking just to talk. Don't even think he knows what he's going on about.
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Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
Where exactly? Which fight or event in Greb's career has led you to believe that there is a degree of truth in that?
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:07 PM   #80
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

Just for the record:

“As long as I have handled fighters I always made them fight anyone I selected, no matter what color or creed they belonged to.”—James “Red” Mason (manager of Harry Greb)
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:12 PM   #81
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

"When Jake La Motta, once middleweight champion, admitted to the Kefauver Committee last month that he had allowed himself to be knocked out by Billy Fox in the fourth round of their fight in Madison Square Garden on Nov. 14, 1947, he merely certified what the wise guys had known before the fight, the innocents afterwards. When Fox fought La Motta, he had, by the book, won 50 of 51 fights, all by knockouts. His only defeat was to Gus Lesnevich in a light heavyweight title bout. But Fox's manager was Mobster Blinky Palermo, and Fox's record is as much a tribute to Palermo's scheming as Fox's punching: several of his victories were mythical; some of his real opponents, like La Motta, took dives."
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:20 PM   #82
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
"When Jake La Motta, once middleweight champion, admitted to the Kefauver Committee last month that he had allowed himself to be knocked out by Billy Fox in the fourth round of their fight in Madison Square Garden on Nov. 14, 1947, he merely certified what the wise guys had known before the fight, the innocents afterwards. When Fox fought La Motta, he had, by the book, won 50 of 51 fights, all by knockouts. His only defeat was to Gus Lesnevich in a light heavyweight title bout. But Fox's manager was Mobster Blinky Palermo, and Fox's record is as much a tribute to Palermo's scheming as Fox's punching: several of his victories were mythical; some of his real opponents, like La Motta, took dives."
That's good So if you ever decide to debate about whether or not Jake LaMotta threw fights for the mob during his career, you have some good backup here.

Now I'm waiting for the backup on your assertion that Greb was nothing more than a "faux legend created by white people". Or that he was the recipient of favorably biased reporting against black fighters. Cuz you haven't presented any examples of that from Greb's career.

I ask you again- Which fight or event in Greb's career has led you to believe that there is a degree of truth in what you stated?
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:22 PM   #83
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

I think it's time to meditate on some ancient wisdom here: "When the horse is dead, DISMOUNT"
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:34 PM   #84
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
You keep putting forward the same argument expecting a different response which would lead me to keep repeating myself.
I aint doing that , you're a tedious man to debate with.
I already posted reasons to my assumptions , go back and give more thought to my posts opposed to your own.
You skipped pased my previous post.
Be it right or wrong , my opinion on the matter is set in stone, nothing you say to me will change that.
Guys, here we have the quintessential product of the times. A man who goes to Google ALONE for his expertise. Despite the fact that even The Great Emancipator warned of this "Don't believe everything you read on the Interwebs." - Abraham Lincoln
A man who insists his views are the only correct ones on the matter in the face of universal and overwhelming evidence against him. One who displays time and again he actually knows nothing of the subject he is expounding on. A man who constantly bends the truth to suit his purposes but screams when the same lax standard is proposed for something he doesn't already believe. A man who admits he knows little to nothing of the man he belittles and who does so for racially motivated reasons. Someone whose opinions are set in the stone of ignorance and is PROUD of that fact. One whose only virtue is that hobgoblin of small minds - consistency.
He is not interested in or capable of rational debate. A man who won't change his mind and can't change the subject. A man never confused by the facts because he refuses to acknowledge any facts that don't support his predetermined conclusion and he also imagines that COUNTS for something with the rest of us!

Gentlemen I give you the prime specimen of the modern "Bigot Troll". Don't feed him and please ignore this ignoramus except to point him back to the general forum where others of his kind repose in the fetid swamp of intolerant ignorance.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:35 PM   #85
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

****ing hell, when you got Chaney and Surf-Bat on your ass you'd better be able to
back your viewpoint.

Dino is making a fool of himself as always. He'd better hightail it back to the Wlad-Marciano thread, I just saw it bumped.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:39 PM   #86
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

Somebody get klompton in here too.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:53 PM   #87
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vockerman View Post
Guys, here we have the quintessential product of the times. A man who goes to Google ALONE for his expertise. Despite the fact that even The Great Emancipator warned of this "Don't believe everything you read on the Interwebs." - Abraham Lincoln
A man who insists his views are the only correct ones on the matter in the face of universal and overwhelming evidence against him. One who displays time and again he actually knows nothing of the subject he is expounding on. A man who constantly bends the truth to suit his purposes but screams when the same lax standard is proposed for something he doesn't already believe. A man who admits he knows little to nothing of the man he belittles and who does so for racially motivated reasons. Someone whose opinions are set in the stone of ignorance and is PROUD of that fact. One whose only virtue is that hobgoblin of small minds - consistency.
He is not interested in or capable of rational debate. A man who won't change his mind and can't change the subject. A man never confused by the facts because he refuses to acknowledge any facts that don't support his predetermined conclusion and he also imagines that COUNTS for something with the rest of us!

Gentlemen I give you the prime specimen of the modern "Bigot Troll". Don't feed him and please ignore this ignoramus except to point him back to the general forum where others of his kind repose in the fetid swamp of intolerant ignorance.
Another clown who points the finger instead of defending Greb. Can you put that amout of word into reasons why you like Greb. You better get cracking if you want to seperate yourself from the rest of the moronic cheesers
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:56 PM   #88
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

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Originally Posted by dinovelvet View Post
Another clown who points the finger instead of defending Greb. Can you put that amout of word into reasons why you like Greb.
Greb doesn't require any defending. His record speaks for itself.

No redirects or deflecting the focus onto other posters. Answer my question please.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:27 PM   #89
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

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Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Am I missing something ? We are not talking about P4P. The question on the thread is
Harry Greb vs Fritzie Zivic ?. Harry Greb was a strong MW who beat great LHs and HWs
and a Fritzie Zivic would be overwhelmed by the 13 pound heavier, stronger, and
twice as fast Greb...Zivic is saved by the referee,or most likely by the matchmaker....
Nope, not missing a thing, Burt. The point isnt the match, but the carnage that would ensue.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:36 PM   #90
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Fritzie Zivic 15rds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
You're right, even if that comes off assholish (and I don't know what a cheeser is).

Anyway Greb is a little shorter, a little bigger, and much more consistent. Zivic took on bigger guys so that's not an issue. Hes dirty but it's nothing greb hasn't seen before and the combination if size and speed should give him an ugly UD. Greb isn't a big enough puncher to stop Zivic but he'll hurt him, with Zivics ability to spoil and roughhouse seeing him through (although he'll probably lose that battle too).
This. Zivic took on bigger, heavier Men then Greb. Not of Grebs caliber, but still, size wouldnt bother Zivic. What would beat Zivic is Grebs' "Windmill" style. Although Zivic would have his moments with his own "style"
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