the win that got Duran into the top 10?

[Clinton]

Originally Posted by MAG1965

not an agenda. If I read something which I think is wrong and gives a fighter too much credit I say what I believe and I bring facts.. It isn't only about Duran. I say the same about Floyd or any fighter I think has not beaten the best, yet is said to be the best of all time.
If I say a guy is not top 10 because he never beat many legends, and never knocked out a great fighter then that is a fact to me, but maybe not to others. I think being rated top 10 over a guy like Manny Pacman who fought and beat more greats than Duran would not be right. And saying Duran would have beat them had he been in shape does not make sense to me, since people said he didn't win because he was older and moved up too high in weight, so being in or out of shape wouldn't matter if those two facts were true. And those things are not explained by Duran fans. If he could not win because he was older and too high in weight, why does he need an excuse that he didn't train? According to his fans he couldn't win against Leonard or Hearns or Benitez anyway.
People love Duran and I understand that, when he won he was furious and impressive, but when he could not dictate the pace after moving up in competition he didn't do as well, and had the excuse of moving up in weight to use, regardless of the fact he moved up to 154 before Hearns,Leonard or Benitez ever did.

And what lie did anyone catch me in? There have been numerous threads on Duran which I ignore. But this is a boxing forum, so I figure people want to hear what I have to say, and lying is not something I do. As a matter of fact I have been very consistent in the over 4 years I have been on the forum.

Your 2 lies: 1. Duran was naturally the bigger man against Benitez. 2.You avoid Duran threads as much as you can. Those are 2 lies that you have written. Just because Duran fought at 154 before Hearns and Benitez does not mean that he was natural at that weight. And after Duran fought initially at 147, he went back down to 135, a fact that you fail to mention. In reality, Duran's physical dimensions were almost identical to Julio Cesar Chavez's, another fact that you ignore, instead insisting that Duran was much bigger than JCC, which is another falsehood on your part.

[Clinton]

Originally Posted by MAG1965

pompous of me? That is not my personality to be honest. I am a humble guy who looks at boxing as facts and tries to be objective and I do not get mad and argue out here. And most of you know this.. This is a boxing forum, I come in here to enjoy the conversation..

How can I as an objective person say Duran is 1-10 when I do not believe it at all and I have criteria for thinking this. For me to rate Roberto as 1-10 when he really did not beat another ATG except Ray, and then he lost so decisively in the rematch would not make sense? Having 4 smiling faces still does not explain how Duran deserves to be top 10,, and what is interesting is you said I am full of myself, yet you are making this about me and not about Duran. So by talking about me, you are doing what you are saying I am pompous for suggesting. I should insert one of your smiling faces to this for effect.

Your "...draw me in comment..." demonstrates pomposity and the opposite of humility, as if anyone's agenda was to "draw you in".

[Vysotsky]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Pre-prime Marcel, of course.

Duran was 18 years old, it was his 17th pro fight and he won the title 25 months later while Marcel was 21 years old, in his 28th pro fight and won the title 18 months later. Claiming Marcel was pre prime to discredit the win isn't accurate imo as Duran was even more pre prime than Marcel was.

[obviousalt]

Originally Posted by Vysotsky

Duran was 18 years old, it was his 17th pro fight and he won the title 25 months later while Marcel was 21 years old, in his 28th pro fight and won the title 18 months later. Claiming Marcel was pre prime to discredit the win isn't accurate imo as Duran was even more pre prime than Marcel was.

But Duran was a pressure fighter they always prime fast and go out of prime fast.
Duran had shitty longetivity

/sarcasm

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by Clinton

Your 2 lies: 1. Duran was naturally the bigger man against Benitez. 2.You avoid Duran threads as much as you can. Those are 2 lies that you have written. Just because Duran fought at 154 before Hearns and Benitez does not mean that he was natural at that weight. And after Duran fought initially at 147, he went back down to 135, a fact that you fail to mention. In reality, Duran's physical dimensions were almost identical to Julio Cesar Chavez's, another fact that you ignore, instead insisting that Duran was much bigger than JCC, which is another falsehood on your part.

Is this about me or Duran. You call me pompous and then you are making me the topic of this thread and not Duran. Duran was not a small guy in weight and handling bigger weights. He went up in weight more than any of the fab 4, and much higher than Benitez ever did. Like I said he was at 154 in 1978 before Benitez,Hearns or Leonard ever fought there. What am I lying about?
And when I see a thread about Duran I try to avoid it because it does not get anywhere. I find myself repeating what I have said before. My opinion will not change on the subject since I have believed what I believe about Duran since the late 1980s.
But if I see a comment that the best win in boxing history is Duran over Leonard when Duran was prime and Ray was still improving, and still Ray fought his fight and Duran could not knock him out, I have a hard time not commenting because I know in my heart that no way is that win the greatest in history. And people saying little Duran moving up and beating the great Ray Leonard is making Duran small and Ray great just to make the win greater, when Duran handled the weight well and Ray was not the peak champion he was later.
Ray was not yet a great fighter. He was improving, and if you do not understand how a great fighter is always a work in progress from when he was younger, than I am not sure discussing anything here matters. The fact that Ray retired in 1982 makes 1980 seem like he was prime, but had he fought like Hearns did the whole decade and into the 1990s, 1980 would have been seen more as his learning years, which it was.

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by Clinton

Your "...draw me in comment..." demonstrates pomposity and the opposite of humility, as if anyone's agenda was to "draw you in".

pomposity? That is not my nature, and most people who see my comments know I comment without arguing and calling names. If I was going to do that I wouldn't waste my time on a boxing forum. I come to discuss and enjoy myself.
As for my comment about drawing me in, I see comments on the Duran threads before I even comment "where is Mag?" and other things. People want me to come to these threads and that is fine, and they probably think it makes the threads more entertaining to have differing opinions-but the truth is I do not comment just to create a back and forth discussion or for entertainment. I really do comment mainly when I see a comment about how great a win Duran over Leonard was, or Duran beating Moore was such a great win and so was the Barkley win, yet the Benitez and Hearns wins are ignored because Duran was out of shape.

Like I always said Duran is not in shape for his fights vs. the greatest guys he ever fought, but he is in shape for Moore and Barkley? I always thought that excuse and the little Duran moving up in weight and being so old as really bad excuses given the fact he did indeed fight at 154 in 1978 before Hearns,Leonard and Benitez. His fans say he is great for beating Moore and Barkley, but the Hearns and Benitez fights don't matter because he was out of shape. Why would he train for Moore and Barkley and not Hearns and Benitez? How does that make sense? It really doesn't. That is like Kobe Bryant or Lebron James saying now I am in the NBA finals. let me not try as hard.

[NWS]

Originally Posted by MAG1965

pomposity? That is not my nature, and most people who see my comments know I comment without arguing and calling names.If I was going to do that I wouldn't waste my time on a boxing forum. I come to discuss and enjoy myself.

Pompous cunt.

[turbotime]

Duran is so hard to beat in Fight Night I try with Pea and I have to run the first fucking 5 rounds and wait for him to gas.

[Garrus]

Originally Posted by turbotime

Duran is so hard to beat in Fight Night I try with Pea and I have to run the first fucking 5 rounds and wait for him to gas.

I stick and move, focus on the body every so often, and clown.

You clown a Duran player, they'll come after you giving counter opportunity's.

[KuRuPT]

Which Fight Night is This?

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by Garrus

I stick and move, focus on the body every so often, and clown.

You clown a Duran player, they'll come after you giving counter opportunity's.

I am so bad at countering though. I am more of a bob and weave guy but christ, a right hand from RD and I get rocked. Pisses me off to no end. I want to be good with him so bad but his pillow hands kill me.

[turbotime]

There was one guy who honestly just stood there in block, waited for me to come at him, and spammed the step back straight right EVERY time. Dreadfully boring, I just end up quitting if they do that.

[NWS]

Originally Posted by turbotime

I am so bad at countering though. I am more of a bob and weave guy but christ, a right hand from RD and I get rocked. Pisses me off to no end. I want to be good with him so bad but his pillow hands kill me.

[turbotime]

Originally Posted by NWS

The game seriously made it impossible for Whitaker to garner any accumulative damage against opponents in the game fuckin hell

[MAG1965]

Originally Posted by NWS

Pompous cunt.

at least ESB has guys like this which show consistency.