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Old 03-15-2013, 10:49 AM   #16
Bummy Davis
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

anyone that could beat Ward would be a great win but for Floyd to do it it would put him in a great great place. I personally think Ward would stop him and I think Floyd knows this
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:49 AM   #17
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
I think they both blew it, and both are hurting for it.

Pacquiao accomplished more in his meteoric rise, but frankly, Floyd is unlikely to ever lose, and if he does, it'll be once. Manny has more Marquez 4's left in his future, I have the feeling.

Both are linked to eachother, and I don't think history will be kind to either for failing to make that fight happen when both had the chance to concede a point to the other. Now Floyd is picking over whoever is the last to achieve anything(Guerrero would be another solid win, but thats all he has is solid wins over solid champions or wins off of guys coming off of great single performances), and Pacquiao is trying to erase the stain of getting put on his face. Sad to see.
good summary but in the end, i think it's the fact that pac took chances and overcame opponents that he was the underdog against that put him on another level

-morales beat him clearly in the first and he rematched him twice, scoring two knockouts

-marquez is always gonna be his kryptonite so what does he do? fights him 4 ****ing times. win or lose, that goes a way with me

-cotto was almost even odds and looked great at 147...pac destroyed him

-hatton had never lost at 140 and pac took him out in far better fashion than mayweather did and at his best weight. again, an close on odds fight

-oscar was pretty heavily favoured on here and pac knocked seven shades of shit out of him

-clottey and even margo were WAY bigger and he dominated

in the end, pac fought people who COULD have beat him and dominated a five year stretch. mayweather hasn't taken a legimiate chance since corrales imo. despite the fact that they both are to blame for the fight not happening, pac's legacy is far more secure and mayweather's, like his style, is all safety first
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

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Originally Posted by Jorodz View Post
and legitimate challenges. how many of his opponents over the past, 8 years or so, have an asterix beside their names

Cotto-UD 12 *coming off two knockout loses, past his best date clearly and 2 weight classes above when the fight was first discussed

Mosley-UD 12 *****ing 10 years past his prime, WAAAAY after fight was first discussed

Hatton-KO 10 *really a 140 pounder, struggled with collazo, and was ricky hatton

Judah-UD 12 *he's a moron and i still gave zab at 4-5 rounds

Marquez-UD 12 ***** off

who was he not heavily favoured over? who presented him with a stylistic challenge? Zab did and gave him hell for the first half and scored a knockdown

How many of those fights should have happened FAR sooner? How many fighters did he just happen to fight went they were ****ing ancient? How many fighters did he just never fight at all when relevant?

Floyd gets shit on here and I think he's a top 50 all time fighter but holy **** you can pick apart his resume without much effort at all
If Hatton was really a 140 lb'er then so was Floyd, Jo. Floyd is just better.

You can pick apart Pac's resume EXACTLY the same. Floyd hasn't been KTFO a few times, either.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:53 AM   #19
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

as for Ward fighting Floyd at 160...... Only if Ward can prove he can be effective at 160 first.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:54 AM   #20
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

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If Hatton was really a 140 lb'er then so was Floyd, Jo. Floyd is just better.

You can pick apart Pac's resume EXACTLY the same. Floyd hasn't been KTFO a few times, either.
fair enough but pac's is far harder to pick apart. i'm not including mosley in there and margo or clottey aren't exactly top wins

other than that, from barrera-marquez 4 his run was incredible. the losses count against him but that happens when you consistently fight the best AT their best

mayweather can't say that
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:05 AM   #21
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

I think both of their resumes have glaring flaws, honestly.

Pacquiao separates himself with fights and wins over legends, and for his resounding, concussive run up the weight classes.

But Floyd has made the habit of fighting the best at his weight class, or the man at it, time and time again. Baldomir upsets king Judah in a shocker? Floyd fought both. Shane Mosley becomes #1 after beating the tar out of Margarito? Floyd beat him.


I agree that Pacquiao is greater and has achieved more, but I think the difference is often vastly overstated. Floyd beat Hatton first, and Hatton never looked the same. Floyd beat DLH at DLH's weight, he didn't suck him down. Pacquiao beat a Mosley contemplating retirement, not soaring off of one of his best career wins. Again, things to think about. I don't think they are THAT far apart, and if Floyd beats Guerrero, and Pacquaio continues to lick his wounds, the gap will start to close, as Guerrero has been hot for a couple of years and has some rather good wins of late.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:05 AM   #22
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

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fair enough but pac's is far harder to pick apart. i'm not including mosley in there and margo or clottey aren't exactly top wins

other than that, from barrera-marquez 4 his run was incredible. the losses count against him but that happens when you consistently fight the best AT their best

mayweather can't say that
Barrera - excellent win

Morales - past his best, coming off a bad schooling

Marquez - draw, many felt he lost the rematch

Diaz -

Hatton - It's Hatton. and it's hatton being trained by Floyd Sr.

Clottey - chokes in all big fights

Cotto - catchweight for a paper belt, dodged Mosley.

Mosley - dodged for 2 years, finally safe enough for him in 2011

Marquez- cherrypicked a 38 yr old lightweight, got outboxed

Bradley - brought up a light hitting JWW for a Top Rank in house fight

Marquez - got starched by a 39 yr old.


See, easy.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:07 AM   #23
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

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Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
Barrera - excellent win

Morales - past his best, coming off a bad schooling

Marquez - draw, many felt he lost the rematch

Diaz -

Hatton - It's Hatton. and it's hatton being trained by Floyd Sr.

Clottey - chokes in all big fights

Cotto - catchweight for a paper belt, dodged Mosley.

Mosley - dodged for 2 years, finally safe enough for him in 2011

Marquez- cherrypicked a 38 yr old lightweight, got outboxed

Bradley - brought up a light hitting JWW for a Top Rank in house fight

Marquez - got starched by a 39 yr old.
still like it a lot better than floyds
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:07 AM   #24
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

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still like it a lot better than floyds
yeah those KO losses and boxing lessons he got look fantastic
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:09 AM   #25
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

I liked the Robert fight from the moment the talks started. People saying this is a mismatch an this an that are really sleeping on Robert. He looks strong while I think floyd is starting to look real tired. I seriously wouldnt be surprised if Robert catches floyd slipping an pulls off an upset.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:11 AM   #26
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

I don't consider the '0' an achievement at all. I think being KTFO is a beter achievement than being undefeated.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:15 AM   #27
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Exactly why I'm saying now could be the time for Floyd to take the baton, so to speak.

He ends his career beating a few more champions(Tough, but he could, he has that sort of skill), and Pacquiao can't erase the memory of him on his face, that's going to shift history a bit. May not be fair, but that is how it works.

I don't, btw, buy the excuse Pacquiao fans, just like Jones fans, offer that a guy on a huge win streak is somehow shot to shit. They got sparked. It happens, it's boxing. If you are shot to shit, you don't go on large win streaks against proven opposition(Though, I suppose, you could argue Pacquiao has lost three fights in row, but he hasn't looked bad or extremely faded in any of them).
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:19 AM   #28
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
Exactly why I'm saying now could be the time for Floyd to take the baton, so to speak.

He ends his career beating a few more champions(Tough, but he could, he has that sort of skill), and Pacquiao can't erase the memory of him on his face, that's going to shift history a bit. May not be fair, but that is how it works.

I don't, btw, buy the excuse Pacquiao fans, just like Jones fans, offer that a guy on a huge win streak is somehow shot to shit. They got sparked. It happens, it's boxing. If you are shot to shit, you don't go on large win streaks against proven opposition(Though, I suppose, you could argue Pacquiao has lost three fights in row, but he hasn't looked bad or extremely faded in any of them).
He's taken the baton since 2009.
Floyd outclassed Mosley, Marquez, Cotto, Ortiz and will outclass Guerrero and most likely the winner of Canelo/Trout

Pac outclassed Cotto, Clottey, Margarito, Bradley and was KTFO by Marquez when he was supposed to be easy pickings. And will probably fight Marquez again for money, and that's it.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:25 AM   #29
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

YEah, I'm not gonna lie, this latest Marquez saga has hurt Pac's historical standing in my eyes.

He RAN from a third fight after the original rematch, and only steps in the ring with Marquez again when he feels a safe, easy win is in the cards, and he can erase all the bad memories of the trouble he had with JMM. He's outboxed and embarassed, the decision is damn near unanimously regarded as awful. He promptly gets a taste of his own medicine in losing a bad decision to Bradley, and gets KTFO by Marquez in a return bout that was supposed to be for all the marbles.

That is an ugly, ugly stretch for the supposed premiere fighter in boxing.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:27 AM   #30
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Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

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Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
yeah those KO losses and boxing lessons he got look fantastic
i see what you're saying but undefeated only matters if you fight the best. pac was not nearly as selective in his choice of opponents and so his accomplishments simply mean more

the fact that he lost is reflective of his level of competition. the fact that floyd is undefeated is reflective of his skill but also, his level of competition

floyd has not taken the chances pac had and was much more selective. i can't really see the reverse

Last edited by Jorodz; 03-15-2013 at 11:57 AM.
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