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Old 03-15-2013, 04:17 AM   #1426
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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I'm a big Marciano fan as most know. I'd favor Wlad easily. I think it's too much of a physical obstacle to overcome. Of course, a neutral referee is more important than Marciano's power as far as I'm concerned. Maybe then Rocky could have a chance at winning one or two times out of ten, if that at all.

I'd favor Wlad over Dempsey, too. I'm not ready to relinquish that position with Frazier, though. Let me pick the referee and Frazier wins more times than not. Nothing rose-colored about that. Wlad actually have a better chance against Ali than Frazier. Styles might suggest so.

The Eddie Chambers bit doesn't mean all that much to me either, sorry. Not that I disrespect a professional fighter like Eddie's position, but I don't know enough. I mean, almost every fighters picks the fighter of their generation to win fantasy fights. Hell, it's not a fighter thing but a generational thing. So it can almost be the opposite effect of nostalgia. I'd have to hear more about his position on other fighters against his generation to get a better perspective.
Truth. Good call on Frazier, too. A little bit more sound, steady pressure, took a few less risks, bigger guy.

I'd probably pick Frazier too. I'd pick Ali, simply because of his speed, movement, and penchant for dragging out the worst in fighters. If Wlad has a panic button(We know he does), Muhammad Ali is gonna push it.

I think Wlad and Dempsey would end early, one way or another. Both could be hurt, and put down. Again, give me the bigger, straighter puncher in that one.

Tyson wrecks Wlad. I think Holyfield would be soundly outboxed as he had a habit of getting caught at the end of long punches, and that hurts me to say, he's one of my favorite fighters. Bowe and Lewis win because they'd fight inside, and have the strength and size to not get dominated physically and to get leverage, as well as avoid being leaned on or redirected with the left(Wlad's best trick that nobody talks about).

Yeah, I'd probably take Liston and Holmes, too. I don't think Wlad would adjust well to being outjabbed. I think he'd start overcommitting to his power shots, which would allow them to establish range to land their own stuff. I think Liston would be the easier assignment, though.

I go back and for on Louis. I think Wlad has a ton of advantages, including styles, but Louis is such a compact, efficient puncher who can turn it over and on with so little, that I think one little opening, one lazy clinch, would be all he needed to put it away. Could he avoid getting pinned out on the jab and bombed out, though? His head movement wasn't great, and his left hand was lazy, which is the only bad habit I can think of the actively draws Wlad's right hand(The second Brock started shifting guard to search for bigger punches, he started getting blasted). Gun to my head, Louis, but I think it's an interesting fight.

Think Old George beats Wlad, too, in a pure stylistic and mental thing. So much pressure, so much heat, so much strength, such painful punches. George on the attack is a fearsome thing, it's very hard to resist. He's like the immovable object, you've got to box around him. Wlad has shown in the Thompson and Wach fights that he can move a bit, but I don't think his foot speed and mental toughness is where it would need to be for that sort of challenge.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:18 AM   #1427
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Tyson would bomb Wlad out of the ring within 2 minutes of the first round.

Wlad would be scared sh!tless and would never be able to handle the kind of aggression and immense pressure Tyson would erupt forward with ... nor can his chin handle the KO power Tyson had

Frazier would probably lose as would Joe Louis
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:04 AM   #1428
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Tyson would bomb Wlad out of the ring within 2 minutes of the first round.

Wlad would be scared sh!tless and would never be able to handle the kind of aggression and immense pressure Tyson would erupt forward with ... nor can his chin handle the KO power Tyson had

Frazier would probably lose as would Joe Louis
Doubt Frazier but probably Louis. In fact Wlad would probably have Louis on ***** street with a few stiff jabs.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:48 AM   #1429
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Doubt Frazier but probably Louis. In fact Wlad would probably have Louis on ***** street with a few stiff jabs.
Is that meant to be a joke? You'll get cought cold by jabs if you walk in straight lines....When was Louis known to attack like a train on tracks?....Louis would circle away from his power hands and position himself from angles to the point where Wlad wont know where he is......Records are paramount and Wlads skills and power are untested at Elite level....Bombing out unconditioned nobody's means nothing......Bute was thought to be the hardest puncher in the SMW division till he fought Froch and his shots just bonced off him......... The closest Wlad came to Elite was Haye(whose far from an A level fighter) and he walked out of the ring without out a scratch.
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:31 AM   #1430
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Is that meant to be a joke? You'll get cought cold by jabs if you walk in straight lines....When was Louis known to attack like a train on tracks?....Louis would circle away from his power hands and position himself from angles to the point where Wlad wont know where he is......Records are paramount and Wlads skills and power are untested at Elite level....Bombing out unconditioned nobody's means nothing......Bute was thought to be the hardest puncher in the SMW division till he fought Froch and his shots just bonced off him......... The closest Wlad came to Elite was Haye(whose far from an A level fighter) and he walked out of the ring without out a scratch.
louis knocks wlad out. i have no argument with that
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:35 AM   #1431
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Doubt Frazier but probably Louis. In fact Wlad would probably have Louis on ***** street with a few stiff jabs.
????????????? loooooooooooool. Arguably the smartest boxer to get into the ring with the arguably the smartest trainer in his corner are going to let Wladimir stand there and jab him??
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:42 AM   #1432
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Truth. Good call on Frazier, too. A little bit more sound, steady pressure, took a few less risks, bigger guy.

I'd probably pick Frazier too. I'd pick Ali, simply because of his speed, movement, and penchant for dragging out the worst in fighters. If Wlad has a panic button(We know he does), Muhammad Ali is gonna push it.

I think Wlad and Dempsey would end early, one way or another. Both could be hurt, and put down. Again, give me the bigger, straighter puncher in that one.

Tyson wrecks Wlad. I think Holyfield would be soundly outboxed as he had a habit of getting caught at the end of long punches, and that hurts me to say, he's one of my favorite fighters. Bowe and Lewis win because they'd fight inside, and have the strength and size to not get dominated physically and to get leverage, as well as avoid being leaned on or redirected with the left(Wlad's best trick that nobody talks about).

Yeah, I'd probably take Liston and Holmes, too. I don't think Wlad would adjust well to being outjabbed. I think he'd start overcommitting to his power shots, which would allow them to establish range to land their own stuff. I think Liston would be the easier assignment, though.

I go back and for on Louis. I think Wlad has a ton of advantages, including styles, but Louis is such a compact, efficient puncher who can turn it over and on with so little, that I think one little opening, one lazy clinch, would be all he needed to put it away. Could he avoid getting pinned out on the jab and bombed out, though? His head movement wasn't great, and his left hand was lazy, which is the only bad habit I can think of the actively draws Wlad's right hand(The second Brock started shifting guard to search for bigger punches, he started getting blasted). Gun to my head, Louis, but I think it's an interesting fight.

Think Old George beats Wlad, too, in a pure stylistic and mental thing. So much pressure, so much heat, so much strength, such painful punches. George on the attack is a fearsome thing, it's very hard to resist. He's like the immovable object, you've got to box around him. Wlad has shown in the Thompson and Wach fights that he can move a bit, but I don't think his foot speed and mental toughness is where it would need to be for that sort of challenge.
Always like reading your excellent posts magna - just wanted to get your opinion on Michael Moorer aswell - aside from getting caught by the bingo shot late from Foreman based on how well he boxed up to that point and if taking only an in shape and motivated Moorer how do you rate him? I think he's one of the most under rated - I see you see George having a good shot with Vlad - how do you see Moorer against Vlad? And what do you think of Moorer as a fighter aside from how you think he does against Vlad?
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:13 PM   #1433
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Yeah, I'd ever so slightly favor Dempsey's chances over Marciano's but that chance is increasingly more marginal by the day because styles is an often overused crux for when quality is clearly lacking. Same goes for the bigger men in regards to Dempsey. I'd see no other scenario than Marciano demolishing Firpo, who would just be a bigger target for Marciano to abuse. It just may take a little longer. I'm not going to argue with Louis when he beat many very good big men and had plenty of quality. Louis was simply a much better fighter than Dempsey in my view.



Yep. Tyson has the best attributes and a serving style. I'm 100% convinced Tyson wins ten times out of ten at his absolute peak. Frazier has the most ideal style. The biggest concerns would be his durability and the referee. Those concerns won't even matter with Tyson, however.



It's a huge IF but a sensible one if it's somehow physically possible. If anyone could prove such physical disparities aren't everything, it's surely a legend like Marciano. Still almost the work of Hollywood movie-making, almost.
I see what you're saying I just dont like the assumption that rocky could beat a bigger man when he never did. Foster was a great lhw but against heavyweight fighters he looked feeble. Stepping up in weight is something should be proved and not taken for granted imo.

Frazier and Tyson both have a huge stylistic ad advantage and should both do wlad before the fifth. Louis could take longer because he's more patient but the minute wlad tires and drops his hands Louis will **** his world up.

If Rocky can take the shots I'd favour him because I don't think a man of Wlad's build is designed for twelve hard rounds. As he fades Rocky wouldn't and his shots would do more damage but that's not the likelihood for me. I see it being a similar story to the chag fight in that Rocky never gets past the jab and is felled by the first big right Wlad throws. Maybe I will give Rocky more of a chance than I did at the start due to his conditioning but he's still the underdog in my books. Definitely a live dog however.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:49 PM   #1434
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

For the record...

Rocky has little chance. For all his stamina and durability against smaller, older elite fighters, a prime Wlad would be dishing out too much and demand too high a price for Marciano to close the distance. And please, stop with the Marciano was hard to hit. Marciano was harder to hit than he seemed but still ate tons of leather.

I think Wlad has the right combination of assets to dissuade and ultimately stop Frazier. Too strong, too good of footwork, too powerful.

Conversely, Tyson has more in his ****nal and could get to Wlad, much faster at closing the distance and getting into his preferred range. Still, if he doesn't finish the task in 5, the tables turn.

Ali, no question. Just too much.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:48 PM   #1435
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Minor correction: I meant "the same goes for Lewis" (Lewis beats Rocky) rather than Louis.
Louis wins also
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:53 PM   #1436
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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For the record...

Rocky has little chance. For all his stamina and durability against smaller, older elite fighters, a prime Wlad would be dishing out too much and demand too high a price for Marciano to close the distance. And please, stop with the Marciano was hard to hit. Marciano was harder to hit than he seemed but still ate tons of leather.

I think Wlad has the right combination of assets to dissuade and ultimately stop Frazier. Too strong, too good of footwork, too powerful.

Conversely, Tyson has more in his ****nal and could get to Wlad, much faster at closing the distance and getting into his preferred range. Still, if he doesn't finish the task in 5, the tables turn.

Ali, no question. Just too much.
Tyson ****s Wladi***** every single time with a 100% win percentage and a 100% KO percentage, even if they fought 100 times.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:02 PM   #1437
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Tyson ****s Wladi***** every single time with a 100% win percentage and a 100% KO percentage, even if they fought 100 times.
As you all see my contributions quickly dwindle to nothing, refer to posts like this for the reason why.

Then again, most who are worth conversing with have already left or seem to have one foot out the door.

It was cool while it lasted.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:11 PM   #1438
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Tyson ****s Wladi***** every single time with a 100% win percentage and a 100% KO percentage, even if they fought 100 times.
not sure this would get him the victory...
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:12 PM   #1439
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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As you all see my contributions quickly dwindle to nothing, refer to posts like this for the reason why.

Then again, most who are worth conversing with have already left or seem to have one foot out the door.

It was cool while it lasted.
Stay, Seamus. It'd really suck if you left too.

And RockySplitNose! I dont see you around much anymore, your posts are absolutely class! Miss em.

I think Moorer has the wrong southpaw style and a size problem against Wlad, to be honest. A lot of his sharp power punch is focused in tight right hands, really great short hooks, excellent uppercuts, a jab that kicks like a mule. Wlad's half a foot reach advantage would really hurt him badly with that. He'd have to lunge into left hands with no reliable way to set them up, which stands to reason that he'd, eventually, settle right in front of him like he did Foreman and Holyfield twice. Then, the straight right hand ends his night. If he stays cagey and discplined(Rare for him, but he had a couple performances where he stayed on the plan all night), I see an Ibragimov fight at best for him, a Chagaev fight at worst.

Moorer is underrated, but Wlad is an awful styles and gifts clash for him.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:44 PM   #1440
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Truth. Good call on Frazier, too. A little bit more sound, steady pressure, took a few less risks, bigger guy.

I'd probably pick Frazier too. I'd pick Ali, simply because of his speed, movement, and penchant for dragging out the worst in fighters. If Wlad has a panic button(We know he does), Muhammad Ali is gonna push it.
Thanks, I'd probably pick Ali too but I think it's genuinely difficult style matchup. Wlad is quite possibly the best HW out-fighter. Criticize his lack of punch variety or his lack of dimensions, but don't criticize his ability to control range and his jab & right hand. He's a better boxer than Lennox Lewis (Boxer, not fighter). Don't get me wrong, I can't pick him against Ali. It's almost sacrilegious, but Frazier may have better odds than Ali against Wlad. He might be a deservedly stronger favorite. It's all up to argument, though.

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I think Wlad and Dempsey would end early, one way or another. Both could be hurt, and put down. Again, give me the bigger, straighter puncher in that one.
Dempsey has the firepower, but I don't give him that much more of a chance than Marciano. If any more. Williard gave up his range far far easier than Wlad would, and Williard doesn't have the speed nor agility of Wlad, and doesn't quite have the same octopus grapple on you when you get to close. Wlad's mastered that for whatever criticism he gets his way for it.

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Tyson wrecks Wlad. I think Holyfield would be soundly outboxed as he had a habit of getting caught at the end of long punches, and that hurts me to say, he's one of my favorite fighters.
Me too. It hurts to me say that Holyfield-Wlad is probably no better than a 50/50 shot for Holyfield. That feels generous because Wlad has a good style for him I think.

[quote]Bowe and Lewis win because they'd fight inside, and have the strength and size to not get dominated physically and to get leverage, as well as avoid being leaned on or redirected with the left(Wlad's best trick that nobody talks about).

Definitely agree with that.

Quote:
Yeah, I'd probably take Liston and Holmes, too. I don't think Wlad would adjust well to being outjabbed. I think he'd start overcommitting to his power shots, which would allow them to establish range to land their own stuff. I think Liston would be the easier assignment, though.
Interesting fights, I'd favor those guys naturally. I think big brother beats up on Liston though. Too ploddy.

Quote:
I go back and for on Louis. I think Wlad has a ton of advantages, including styles, but Louis is such a compact, efficient puncher who can turn it over and on with so little, that I think one little opening, one lazy clinch, would be all he needed to put it away. Could he avoid getting pinned out on the jab and bombed out, though? His head movement wasn't great, and his left hand was lazy, which is the only bad habit I can think of the actively draws Wlad's right hand(The second Brock started shifting guard to search for bigger punches, he started getting blasted). Gun to my head, Louis, but I think it's an interesting fight.
Louis has much better chance than Liston. I feel very strongly on Louis beating Wlad. Surely Wlad could end it up with a nice right hand but Louis had all the tools to close the distance. Louis closed the distance brilliantly against Carnera and looked devastating against the bigger fighters he faced as well. Wlad can't not hold up to that sort of efficient, attacking mode/ability. He won't be pitching enough and he's going to give the ball up somewhere along the way and Louis is going to make him pay badly. That will drastically change the fight in my view. I just don't see Wlad controlling Louis at the end of his jab for the entire fight. I don't necessarily think Wlad has a style edge at all actually. I think he's made to order in a lot of ways for Louis, it's just that Wlad is so much physically bigger, and so capable from a distance with his jab & right hand which should naturally trouble a smaller stalking Louis for some time. But Louis could close the distance better than given credit against bigger fighters. Wlad likes to jump back from offense, and Louis would press Wlad enough to unhinge him from his comfort. The truth about the Haye-Wlad fight was Haye had his most successful moments when he created the initiative offensively, like in the 12th round. The truth is Louis is a killer with the offensive initiative.

Quote:
Think Old George beats Wlad, too, in a pure stylistic and mental thing. So much pressure, so much heat, so much strength, such painful punches. George on the attack is a fearsome thing, it's very hard to resist. He's like the immovable object, you've got to box around him. Wlad has shown in the Thompson and Wach fights that he can move a bit, but I don't think his foot speed and mental toughness is where it would need to be for that sort of challenge.
This is the biggest surprise, Magna. Does Old Foreman really win on style at this point of his career? I think he might be too ploddy, too slow of foot & hand to trouble and pressure Wlad enough. Maybe Foreman sees the weakness and capitalizes on it but I have trouble seeing the older, bigger, Foreman being able to close the distance and capitalize. Young Foreman is a different story altogether. It would be interesting to see Wlad react, though. Foreman is very mentally strong and Wlad really hasn't had to resist against pressure from a quality opponent in some time.
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