Boxing News 24 Forum
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-15-2013, 11:31 AM   #31
turbotime
Future Hall Of Famer
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: LA/Canada
Posts: 18,342
vCash: 816
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorodz View Post
i see what you're saying but undefeated only matters if you fight the best. pac was not nearly as selective in his choice of opponents and so his accomplishments simply mean more

the fact that he lost is reflective of his level of competition. the fact that floyd is undefeated is reflective of his skill but also, his level of competition
Really? Pac losing to a faded Morales would be on par with Mayweather losing to Oscar, but he didn't, because he can adjust when he has to. Pac simply throws his hands up mid-ring and keeps on trucking

How can you possibly say Pac bringing Marquez up to welterweight is not being choosey of his opposition? They saw him at WW vs Floyd, get dropped and hurt bad by Katsidis and figured this was the perfect chance to seal their trilogy and go out and top against their foe. "Not even god in the ring can help Marquez" Ariza said. And it backfired against a 38 yr old.
turbotime is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-15-2013, 11:40 AM   #32
Boxed Ears
Dwyer
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Stacks CENTRAL!!!
Posts: 25,142
vCash: 25999
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

If you won the lottery on the same day you got raped by a rabid rabbit in Grand Rapids, it would still be more likely than this fight even happening, let alone with Floyd winning. So, that should tell you it'd be a 10/10 victory if ever there was one.
Boxed Ears is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 12:04 PM   #33
Jorodz
watching Gatti Ward 1...
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada, eh? Roy Jones, Jack Daniels and Grandma's Boy
Posts: 10,825
vCash: 1139
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
Really? Pac losing to a faded Morales would be on par with Mayweather losing to Oscar, but he didn't, because he can adjust when he has to. Pac simply throws his hands up mid-ring and keeps on trucking

How can you possibly say Pac bringing Marquez up to welterweight is not being choosey of his opposition? They saw him at WW vs Floyd, get dropped and hurt bad by Katsidis and figured this was the perfect chance to seal their trilogy and go out and top against their foe. "Not even god in the ring can help Marquez" Ariza said. And it backfired against a 38 yr old.
pac lost to morales absolutely...then rematched and dominated. i'm not arguing their forms or dominance but their risk taking at this time. morales, barrera and marquez were all good enough to beat pac...and he fought them all multiple times.

pac brought marquez up to welter yes, so did floyd. but floyd had a clear advantage in every way. NO ONE gave marquez a chance against floyd but he is pac's kryptonite. pac fought a brutal counter puncher who had his number 4 times.

look, floyd has more skill, was more dominant and would destroy pac h2h.

pac has fought more truly elite competition in my opinion, took more risks and beat opponents who had clear edges over him. feel free to disagree. when has floyd ever been the underdog as pac was against barrera? or oscar? or even money as pac was against cotto?

he destroyed all of them.
Jorodz is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:01 PM   #34
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,357
vCash: 475
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

If Floyd did this I would create a church built around things he said.during post fight interviews
LittleRed is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:09 PM   #35
turbotime
Future Hall Of Famer
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: LA/Canada
Posts: 18,342
vCash: 816
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorodz View Post
pac lost to morales absolutely...then rematched and dominated. i'm not arguing their forms or dominance but their risk taking at this time. morales, barrera and marquez were all good enough to beat pac...and he fought them all multiple times.

pac brought marquez up to welter yes, so did floyd. but floyd had a clear advantage in every way. NO ONE gave marquez a chance against floyd but he is pac's kryptonite. pac fought a brutal counter puncher who had his number 4 times.

look, floyd has more skill, was more dominant and would destroy pac h2h.

pac has fought more truly elite competition in my opinion, took more risks and beat opponents who had clear edges over him. feel free to disagree. when has floyd ever been the underdog as pac was against barrera? or oscar? or even money as pac was against cotto?

he destroyed all of them.
-Pac was the favourite against Cotto and was only 2-1 underdog vs Oscar.

-Pac dominated against a Morales who was JUST DOMINATED. How is that anything great?

-He was a HEAVY favourite against Marquez in the 3rd fight cherrypick, and got dominated.

-Mayweather was the underdog against Corrales and dominated. Just because Floyd makes it look easy against everyone doesn't mean he didn't fight anyone.

-And saying "Marquez is Pac's kryptonite" doesn't help Pac's case, especially when trying to drag him up just like Floyd did. Difference being Floyd dominated and Marquez got waxed twice.
turbotime is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:11 PM   #36
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 40,200
vCash: 75
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Pacquiao is the more skilled fighter and looks better on film.
Flea Man is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:24 PM   #37
Jorodz
watching Gatti Ward 1...
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada, eh? Roy Jones, Jack Daniels and Grandma's Boy
Posts: 10,825
vCash: 1139
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
-Pac was the favourite against Cotto and was only 2-1 underdog vs Oscar.

-Pac dominated against a Morales who was JUST DOMINATED. How is that anything great?

-He was a HEAVY favourite against Marquez in the 3rd fight cherrypick, and got dominated.

-Mayweather was the underdog against Corrales and dominated. Just because Floyd makes it look easy against everyone doesn't mean he didn't fight anyone.

-And saying "Marquez is Pac's kryptonite" doesn't help Pac's case, especially when trying to drag him up just like Floyd did. Difference being Floyd dominated and Marquez got waxed twice.
and that's your opinion. i prefer pac's accomplishments and the context around his victories, you prefer floyd's. i think we've hit all the facts and i don't doubt yours.

we just have different interpretations of the events and the fighter's records
Jorodz is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:26 PM   #38
turbotime
Future Hall Of Famer
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: LA/Canada
Posts: 18,342
vCash: 816
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorodz View Post
and that's your opinion. i prefer pac's accomplishments and the context around his victories, you prefer floyd's. i think we've hit all the facts and i don't doubt yours.

we just have different interpretations of the events and the fighter's records
Those odds weren't my opinion, Jro. You asked if Floyd had ever faced those kinds of odds, so I told you

I think you must have been paying attention to general fight picks rather than actual fight odds? Because no way was Pac/Cotto even money.
turbotime is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:28 PM   #39
the_bigunit
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,343
vCash: 785
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
I think they both blew it, and both are hurting for it.

Pacquiao accomplished more in his meteoric rise, but frankly, Floyd is unlikely to ever lose, and if he does, it'll be once. Manny has more Marquez 4's left in his future, I have the feeling.

Both are linked to eachother, and I don't think history will be kind to either for failing to make that fight happen when both had the chance to concede a point to the other. Now Floyd is picking over whoever is the last to achieve anything(Guerrero would be another solid win, but thats all he has is solid wins over solid champions or wins off of guys coming off of great single performances), and Pacquiao is trying to erase the stain of getting put on his face. Sad to see.
Quote:
Assuming Ward wins his next fight, and Floyd beats Guerrero, and then Floyd goes a knocks Ward out a year later?

Yeah, I'd have to call that the best victory of all time. No other fighter in history would have achieved anything like that; The #1 pound for pound fighter moves up three weightclasses for one fight, drills the pound for pound #2 fighter and becomes the simultaneous #1 at welterweight and supermiddleweight. That's some Henry Armstrong shit right there.


Both excellent posts.
the_bigunit is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:32 PM   #40
the_bigunit
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,343
vCash: 785
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorodz View Post
good summary but in the end, i think it's the fact that pac took chances and overcame opponents that he was the underdog against that put him on another level

-morales beat him clearly in the first and he rematched him twice, scoring two knockouts

-marquez is always gonna be his kryptonite so what does he do? fights him 4 ****ing times. win or lose, that goes a way with me

-cotto was almost even odds and looked great at 147...pac destroyed him

-hatton had never lost at 140 and pac took him out in far better fashion than mayweather did and at his best weight. again, an close on odds fight

-oscar was pretty heavily favoured on here and pac knocked seven shades of shit out of him

-clottey and even margo were WAY bigger and he dominated

in the end, pac fought people who COULD have beat him and dominated a five year stretch. mayweather hasn't taken a legimiate chance since corrales imo. despite the fact that they both are to blame for the fight not happening, pac's legacy is far more secure and mayweather's, like his style, is all safety first
Excellent
the_bigunit is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:38 PM   #41
turbotime
Future Hall Of Famer
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: LA/Canada
Posts: 18,342
vCash: 816
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_bigunit View Post
Excellent
Wait......Cotto looked great going into the Pacquiao fight? Let's be real here. A lot of people thought Clottey beat him up, before that Margarito beat his ass and Pac STILL forced a catchweight on Cotto. ..
turbotime is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:40 PM   #42
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 23,022
vCash: 330
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

At MW it would be a good victory but I'm not massively keen on fighters moving down on weight due to historic consequences.

If Floyd beat Guerrero, winner of Trout/Canelo at lmw, Sergio at MW and Ward at SMW I'd straight up call him the goat.

The Pac fight is dead but history will show it was only relevant for a couple of years and Floyd beat his would be conqueror. I dont even think Floyd will be remembered as a cherry picker because history will show near enough every significant victory of his was coming off arguably their most significant victory. I think he'll be remembered for his insane skil set and his dominance across multiple weights. The more weights he traverses and to more high ranked opponents he beats in the ring, and the longer his span at the top, the greater his legacy will be.

When did he beat that sfw dude now (I ain't disrespecting I've just completely forgot his name) was it 98/99 that's 14 years as a top fighter, nearly all of which he spent as number 1 in his division (barring his retirement and his stint at lww)
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 01:47 PM   #43
Jorodz
watching Gatti Ward 1...
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Canada, eh? Roy Jones, Jack Daniels and Grandma's Boy
Posts: 10,825
vCash: 1139
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbotime View Post
Those odds weren't my opinion, Jro. You asked if Floyd had ever faced those kinds of odds, so I told you

I think you must have been paying attention to general fight picks rather than actual fight odds? Because no way was Pac/Cotto even money.
sorry I didn't mean the odds were your opinion just that you rate Floyd higher than pac. that's why I said I don't doubt your facts. i'm sure the odds youre quoting are accurate... it's just how you interpret and analyze both of their careers that is opinion. same as how what I'm saying is just opinion
Jorodz is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 02:28 PM   #44
SJS19
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 11,240
vCash: 75
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
I don't consider the '0' an achievement at all. I think being KTFO is a beter achievement than being undefeated.
SJS19 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2013, 02:29 PM   #45
SJS19
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 11,240
vCash: 75
Default Re: Would Floyd beating Ward be up there with the likes of Ali-Foreman etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flea Man View Post
Pacquiao is the more skilled fighter and looks better on film.

SJS19 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015