Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

[obviousalt]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Lopez was pretty damn good everywhere. Love watching him fight. No weaknesses, all strengths. Only thing you could say he didn't have was top flight athletic ability and strength for his size.

Strength as in ability to push men around? As he did have some pretty power in his hands.

[KidDynamite]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I actually think holy could beat Wlad. He was able to hah his way in against every super heavy he fought due to his speed and mobility advantage. Plus his punch variety in the pocket is supreme.

He could do wlad before 5 round.

In fact the only man I would pick to outbox wlad would be Ali. Anyone else has to stop him.

I think Holmes would be able to out box him too.

If you have power and fast hands then you have a great chance.

[Boxed Ears]

I think what you've all been missing is that Klitschko always folds under pressure and has a horrible glass jaw and Marciano only beat up old former light heavyweights and his arms wouldn't even enable him to wipe his own arse without being a contortionist. I say they both lose in this one by 3rd to 14th round stoppage. And that's being generous.

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I see what you're saying I just dont like the assumption that rocky could beat a bigger man when he never did. Foster was a great lhw but against heavyweight fighters he looked feeble. Stepping up in weight is something should be proved and not taken for granted imo.

Frazier and Tyson both have a huge stylistic ad advantage and should both do wlad before the fifth. Louis could take longer because he's more patient but the minute wlad tires and drops his hands Louis will fuck his world up.

If Rocky can take the shots I'd favour him because I don't think a man of Wlad's build is designed for twelve hard rounds. As he fades Rocky wouldn't and his shots would do more damage but that's not the likelihood for me. I see it being a similar story to the chag fight in that Rocky never gets past the jab and is felled by the first big right Wlad throws. Maybe I will give Rocky more of a chance than I did at the start due to his conditioning but he's still the underdog in my books. Definitely a live dog however.

Chag was hit by right hands countless times, somethimes he eat the right hand lunging in where the surge of engery on impact was double what most other guys got but he managed to carry on.......What makes you think Rock is going to fell on the first right hand he takes.....What decent fighter has Wlad ever one punch knocked out?...................Chag was not a great boxer. He had no idea how to cut off the ring and kept plodding forward head first.... What didn't work for him doesn't mean sucess wont come to anybody else.....

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Chag was hit by right hands countless times, somethimes he eat the right hand lunging in where the surge of engery on impact was double what most other guys got but he managed to carry on.......What makes you think Rock is going to fell on the first right hand he takes.....What decent fighter has Wlad ever one punch knocked out?...................Chag was not a great boxer. He had no idea how to cut off the ring and kept plodding forward head first.... What didn't work for him doesn't mean sucess wont come to anybody else.....

not seen it for a while but didn't wlad drop him early on?

I think that was my point. his jab and 1-2 was immense.

[SP_Mauler]

Originally Posted by Seamus

The first thing every trainer talks about regarding Wlad is his footwork. Sorry, it's his best tool.

And yes, I pick Tyson over Waldo , tho it would get interesting if it went longer than 5 as the punishmennt Wlad is shipping would start to take its toll. Why does everyone ignore the Insane amount of damage that 1-2 do over a few rounds?

Where was Earnie Shaver's power when he was KO'd? I only repeat what trainers and opponents say. Of there is someone more qualified to guage Wlad's power let me know.

Wach ate a shit ton of hard shots. He's huge, strong and for the time iron chiined dude. One thing about Wlad's power is that he doesn't hide his shots well. Foreman was great at keeping his left in front of his opponents face while the right was on its way. Wlad could have learned from that.

And lastly Marciano was hurt as fuck in the 10th against Walcott, ready to go in fact. But he was an animal, no doubt.

Wait, You're suggesting Rocky over 49fights was only hurt in one round in one fight? I rest my case.

Lol at how you cling onto other peoples opinion.

Wach oh ye ye ah uh ah uh yea yea of course

Foreman(And Holmes too I think) said Frazier beats Klitschko.
Ali said Marciano was better then Frazier.

[MadcapMaxie]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

I think what you've all been missing is that Klitschko always folds under pressure and has a horrible glass jaw and Marciano only beat up old former light heavyweights and his arms wouldn't even enable him to wipe his own arse without being a contortionist. I say they both lose in this one by 3rd to 14th round stoppage. And that's being generous.

Does the ref then declare himself the winner?

[dinovelvet]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

not seen it for a while but didn't wlad drop him early on?

I think that was my point. his jab and 1-2 was immense.

Thats all he has is a 1-2 and against great fighters thats not enough....Holyfield by sidestepping, waeving in and under, countering, slipping, would have a field day expoiting his one dimensional style.....Ali would pepper his face with combinations faster than he could throw his jab........Wlad got no head or upper body movement whatsoever and the fact he's not proven at Elite level cant be disputed.....People say he's one of the best h2h. He went real life h2h with Purity , Brewster and Sanders and got brutally undone.

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by dinovelvet

Thats all he has is a 1-2 and against great fighters thats not enough....Holyfield by sidestepping, waeving in and under, countering, slipping, would have a field day expoiting his one dimensional style.....Ali would pepper his face with combinations faster than he could throw his jab........Wlad got no head or upper body movement whatsoever and the fact he's not proven at Elite level cant be disputed.....People say he's one of the best h2h. He went real life h2h with Purity , Brewster and Sanders and got brutally undone.

i pick both holy and ali to beat him.

also he proved he had upper body movement against haye, quite a lot of shots he avoided due to good movement.

[PetethePrince]

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

Wlad's 1-2 is perfect. Yes, perfect. As in, I have not seen a heavyweight throw that combination better. He hooks off the jab very, very well. His lead left hook is very powerful and quick, despite often being telegraphed. He moves his feet to keep distance masterfully.

Problem is, that's all there is. It's extremely formidable, extremely hard to get around, but when you are around it, you have your big chances. No inside game. No uppercuts. Body punching is so sporadic as to be a non-factor. Only throws in combination with a badly hurt opponent or a sitting target(Byrd II, Wach, Brock).

The other thing that hurts him against guys like Tyson is his tendency to overwhelm or wait. If he doesn't get you with his opening tries in the first 4 rounds, he tends to settle in rather than push the issue. He was much better against Wach, trying to finish the whole 12 rounds(His roided out opponent just would not go), but until I see more of it, I'll say his trend is what he's shown in Rahman, Ibragimov, Thompson I...If you hang around, he lets you hang around. If Tyson DIDN'T take Wlad out early, for the sake of example, he'd have a chance to do it late. Same with Louis.

In the end, I think it all comes down to the jab and the clinch. If you have a way past or through the jab, you get in. If you have a way to prevent, outfight, or jump the clinch(Frazier would jump the hell out of the clinch, and I think Louis could too if he focused on that effort), then, you have a massive punching bag; There is nothing else. Thing is, you get stuck behind that jab, and you are probably getting outjabbed. Then comes the right, and if necessary, the big left, and that's just trouble for anybody. If you can't stop the holding, you are going to keep getting reset at his preferred range, and eventually, he gets a chance to establish his jab all over again, and you have to contend with an incredible drain on your legs and lungs fighting all that mauling.

It's a solvable puzzle, but if you've boxed, you know it's a damn difficult one. Guys like Tyson and Ali have the hand and the footspeed to accomplish it, guys like Holmes and Liston have the very rare chance to outjab him, Lewis can outfight him because he's just as big and strong and ten times as mean, and Frazier has the educated pressure and ability to work around holding. Louis has the ability to punch short and still cause tremendous damage, even though it seems obvious to me he'd be outgunned outside, I think he'd find his target in no-man's land eventually and Joe Louis rarely needed a second try.

Wlad belongs. He might not be the best heavyweight h2h, or anything close, but he's a massive headache to deal with. Just a dangerous pain in the ass.

Perfectly put Magna, my thoughts exactly. When I think about Wlad I always think that his greatest strengths are his greatest weaknesses. Not only do you need the skills but you need the right temperament to get through that wall of a range controlling jab. This is what deters me from confidently picking Liston. He could be pestered, and I'm not exactly confident he has the mental fortitude and fleet-footedness to get the job done. No, I don't quite think Liston can outjab Wlad either considering he's at a height and arguable speed disadvantage.

[lufcrazy]

I think Brewster set the bar for what beats wlad, somewhere between Brewster and Peter.

You need head movement, a true frame 6' 200+ pounds. A good chin, huge power and immense heart.

Wlad will beat up these guys until they outlast and it takes something special to take that kinda punishment and still have enough to finish a fight.

[Seamus]

Originally Posted by lufcrazy

I think Brewster set the bar for what beats wlad, somewhere between Brewster and Peter.

You need head movement, a true frame 6' 200+ pounds. A good chin, huge power and immense heart.

Wlad will beat up these guys until they outlast and it takes something special to take that kinda punishment and still have enough to finish a fight.

Does that same fighter beat the Wlad who went on his run over the past seven years? In fact, that same fighter was KO'd by Wlad after the fact.

I still think that's the basic blue print. But add some speed, like that of Tyson, and you have a great recipe to beat him. Easier said than done, tho.

[obviousalt]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Does that same fighter beat the Wlad who went on his run over the past seven years? In fact, that same fighter was KO'd by Wlad after the fact.

I still think that's the basic blue print. But add some speed, like that of Tyson, and you have a great recipe to beat him. Easier said than done, tho.

You only need a better outside game than Wlad to beat him.

[Jorodz]

Sooooo BE or boggle, can you wrap this up?

[lufcrazy]

Originally Posted by Seamus

Does that same fighter beat the Wlad who went on his run over the past seven years? In fact, that same fighter was KO'd by Wlad after the fact.

I still think that's the basic blue print. But add some speed, like that of Tyson, and you have a great recipe to beat him. Easier said than done, tho.

Honestly, wlad has rarely looked better than he did in the first 4 against Brewster.

I also think the eye problems need to be taken into account, especially when his game plan was too watch out for wlad's right, duck under it and unleash a left hook.

So yeah, put Brewster from that night in with any version of wlad and i think wlad gets stopped.

wlad had a bad 60 second spell in the fight, other than that he looked just as good as he ever did and ever would.

Sanders is anomalous, noone else fights like him. Purrity caught a young man not used to the distance. Brewster provides a blue print.