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Old 03-21-2013, 11:43 AM   #301
dempsey1234
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Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

A manager being a manager and looking after his guy

Cameron Dunkin said.
"My job is to get them opportunities, make them the most money, put them in the best position to further their careers. If that's what's best for them, then that's what we do."

And what about a Rios-Provodnikov fight, which has "brutality" written all over it?

"Yeah, well, that's a fight that people have already mentioned," Dunkin said. "But there's also other great fights out there for him (Rios) and I need to make him some money. It always comes down to that."

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Old 03-21-2013, 01:07 PM   #302
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Here is another managers take on things
2 time Olympian, Oscar Valdez, 22 years, 3-0, 3ko’s, is managed by Frank Espinosa.
Espinoza thinks that Valdez can move a little quicker then most fighters cos of his amateur credentials.
He’s talking of putting him on a fast track but not at this time, which means what?

This tells me that Espinosa is willing to take a chance, hopefully not too early in Valdez’s career.

Time will tell if he is right, also depends on how fast the test comes.
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Old 03-25-2013, 10:56 PM   #303
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Fighters fall out with managers over money that's a given.Fighters fall out with managers because they believe they don't get the fights they deserve or title fights that is a given.Very rarely have a fighter & manager fallen out over who chose to fight at a location.It wasn't as straightforward as you think.

Barry McGuigan & Barney Eastwood were on top of the world summer of 85'.Eastwood had negotiated a title fight in london against long reigning WBA FWGT champ Eusebio Pedroza who was on the way down.McGuigan triumphed in front of 26,000 fans all Ireland celebrated as did the UK a man had crossed many divides to unite different religions & nations.He became coverted Sports Personality of the Year massive accolade in the UK at the time.Sponsorships,endorsements & just as many well meaning advisors soon followed.

They had been through a lot together very close working relationship McGuigan had suffered two early setbacks losing to Peter Eubank in his third pro fight(Chris brother)& the death of Young Ali in his 12th he nearly gave up but overcame the heartache of his 6th round ko of Ali.McGuigan's Dad Pat & also Eastwood claimed he was also fighting for two & to carry on he did.

Little over a year later they were never to speak again other than in court.Two defences of the title against Taylor then Cabrera had passed.McGuigan signed to fight in Caesars Palace in june 86' against Steve Cruz a plumber by trade paid $15,000 it was the fight to get him across in the USA.Cruz written off as a club fighter.

In 110 degree heat McGuigan wilted after being well ahead by the mid point of the fight.Knocked down in the 10th & 15th rounds due to exhaustion rather than the punches he dropped a UD.McGuigan spent the night in hospital due to dehydration fingers were pointed at Eastwood why make that fight in that heat?Madness.

They split Eastwood eventually won damages many years later in court over McGuigan's autobiography.

Eastwood never wanted him to fight Cruz in the open stifling Vegas heat McGuigan had lots of other advisors telling him otherwise.Just like he never wanted McGuigan to fight Azumah Nelson a fight McGuigan wanted Nelson was a beast UK world rated Pat Cowdell living proof how dangerous he was in a highlight reel KO loss.

Eastwood still had a copy of a 750,000$ contract Wilfredo Gomez had agreed to for a fight in either MSG or Dublin venue pending.Gomez like Pedroza it had to be said had seen better days.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:00 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by Makingweight View Post
Fighters fall out with managers over money that's a given.Fighters fall out with managers because they believe they don't get the fights they deserve or title fights that is a given.Very rarely have a fighter & manager fallen out over who chose to fight at a location.It wasn't as straightforward as you think.

Barry McGuigan & Barney Eastwood were on top of the world summer of 85'.Eastwood had negotiated a title fight in london against long reigning WBA FWGT champ Eusebio Pedroza who was on the way down.McGuigan triumphed in front of 26,000 fans all Ireland celebrated as did the UK a man had crossed many divides to unite different religions & nations.He became coverted Sports Personality of the Year massive accolade in the UK at the time.Sponsorships,endorsements & just as many well meaning advisors soon followed.

They had been through a lot together very close working relationship McGuigan had suffered two early setbacks losing to Peter Eubank in his third pro fight(Chris brother)& the death of Young Ali in his 12th he nearly gave up but overcame the heartache of his 6th round ko of Ali.McGuigan's Dad Pat & also Eastwood claimed he was also fighting for two & to carry on he did.

Little over a year later they were never to speak again other than in court.Two defences of the title against Taylor then Cabrera had passed.McGuigan signed to fight in Caesars Palace in june 86' against Steve Cruz a plumber by trade paid $15,000 it was the fight to get him across in the USA.Cruz written off as a club fighter.

In 110 degree heat McGuigan wilted after being well ahead by the mid point of the fight.Knocked down in the 10th & 15th rounds due to exhaustion rather than the punches he dropped a UD.McGuigan spent the night in hospital due to dehydration fingers were pointed at Eastwood why make that fight in that heat?Madness.

They split Eastwood eventually won damages many years later in court over McGuigan's autobiography.

Eastwood never wanted him to fight Cruz in the open stifling Vegas heat McGuigan had lots of other advisors telling him otherwise.Just like he never wanted McGuigan to fight Azumah Nelson a fight McGuigan wanted Nelson was a beast UK world rated Pat Cowdell living proof how dangerous he was in a highlight reel KO loss.

Eastwood still had a copy of a 750,000$ contract Wilfredo Gomez had agreed to for a fight in either MSG or Dublin venue pending.Gomez like Pedroza it had to be said had seen better days.
Great post, M.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:12 AM   #305
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There has been a recurring problem in boxing, and that is the guilt trip put on boxers. Many will not like what I may say next, but I as a manager have to defend the fighter.
A fighter has to have a team in place that can help the fighter get to where he wants to go and reach his full potential.
Sometimes what happens is the fighters famiy, the father and brothers, friends,trainers, including lawyers who have never before been involved with a fighter, and have absolutely no experience in professional boxing, think they know best. They become Boxrec experts, want to re-invent the wheel, and think they know best.
Many a good prospect has left their careers in the dust cos they couldn't handle the guilt trips handed to them by his so-called inner circle.
Why are boxers the only professionals that are made to feel ungrateful, or not loyal cos they may feel like they need something else. No professional athlete retains their coach they had growing up, think of it like this, in any job or trade you can think of educational growth is essential. In the states you have a little league coach, then a highschool coach, then a college coach and then a pro coach. A boxer is expected to remain with his little league coach otherwise he is an ingrate I ask you is that fair?
My suggestion would be to bring in someone to help not neccessarily to replace somebody, even that is met with resistance but to assist in the training. The answer then becomes if the coach or whoever becomes a problem there is no choice but to replace him, then the manager and the fighter become the bad guys. A battle between the fighters family, friends, and inexperienced know it all's, usually produce only one casualtly the fighter himself.
Everybody has to be realistic it's not about them it's about the fighter.
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:30 AM   #306
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Its well known that Amir Khan had his family dictating his management until he lost and the right move to Freddie Roach was made.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:38 AM   #307
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With family it is a case of the old line 'we know best we care for you we are your family' in some cases often it isn't.A good manager in any walk of life esp boxing has the one ingredient missing experience good & bad.How to move a career along going well what do we do when it goes off track.Plan A is great but if i was a fighter i am just as interested about Plan B it's called realism.

Any fighter with potential star quality has to endure the hangers on again a given unless surrounded by the right management & family or the fighter themselves is aware enough of the signs.Sadly the hangers on ARE often the family the fighter viewed as a living breathing lottery winning ticket the guilt trips then start & everybody tries to get a peice.The phonecalls,visits & emotional support good & bad soon dry up if a career doesn't go to plan.

Khan is a great example family & hangers on all blowing smoke up him 24/7 been through loads of different trainers family made decisions not 100% Khan's call by any means that word advisors pop up.A fighter IMO needs to get a feel for a trainer & his manager trust is hard to build easy to break.Often the people they believe they should trust (the family in most cases)let them down simply because they are out of their depth & potentially swimming with sharks!
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:14 AM   #308
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With family it is a case of the old line 'we know best we care for you we are your family' in some cases often it isn't.A good manager in any walk of life esp boxing has the one ingredient missing experience good & bad.How to move a career along going well what do we do when it goes off track.Plan A is great but if i was a fighter i am just as interested about Plan B it's called realism.

Any fighter with potential star quality has to endure the hangers on again a given unless surrounded by the right management & family or the fighter themselves is aware enough of the signs.Sadly the hangers on ARE often the family the fighter viewed as a living breathing lottery winning ticket the guilt trips then start & everybody tries to get a peice.The phonecalls,visits & emotional support good & bad soon dry up if a career doesn't go to plan.

Khan is a great example family & hangers on all blowing smoke up him 24/7 been through loads of different trainers family made decisions not 100% Khan's call by any means that word advisors pop up.A fighter IMO needs to get a feel for a trainer & his manager trust is hard to build easy to break.Often the people they believe they should trust (the family in most cases)let them down simply because they are out of their depth & potentially swimming with sharks!
Its not just Boxing, thats Life .
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:08 PM   #309
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Its not just Boxing, thats Life .
You are right, but it seems to happen most in boxing and we talking boxing. I dont follow Soccer/Football, does family/friends interference happen in that sport? Or for that matter in any other professional sport to the extent it happens in boxing?
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:23 PM   #310
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You are right, but it seems to happen most in boxing and we talking boxing. I dont follow Soccer/Football, does family/friends interference happen in that sport? Or for that matter in any other professional sport to the extent it happens in boxing?
Surprisingly it does, Ego's are everywhere.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:58 PM   #311
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Definitely not to the extent that it happens in boxing tho...
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:29 PM   #312
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Definitely not to the extent that it happens in boxing tho...
There are single team coaching staffs for football, baseball, and hockey teams, right?

Players associations and unions that help with rights management.

Licensing for many managers, which helps players avoid outright criminals.

Fighting is not centralized into one league, or governed by the same rules, regulations or oversights as other sports.

On top of that, fighters come from working class backgrounds and don't often have an idea how to manage themselves.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:43 AM   #313
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There are single team coaching staffs for football, baseball, and hockey teams, right?

Players associations and unions that help with rights management.

Licensing for many managers, which helps players avoid outright criminals.

Fighting is not centralized into one league, or governed by the same rules, regulations or oversights as other sports.

On top of that, fighters come from working class backgrounds and don't often have an idea how to manage themselves.
You are so right and its a shame. I hope this thread and guys like yourself help somebody do right for themselves. Like this old timer once told me,
"Not everybody that smiles at you is your friend". Something people forget these kids as they grow older and wiser are filled with regret over what could have been.
Guys if I can help I will, just ask.
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:56 AM   #314
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Its not just Boxing, thats Life .
Scrap very true in some parts!

The difference between Boxing & pretty much all other pro sports is the actual structure of a contract.If you are not fighting you are not earning simply because of maybe bad management or limited contacts.No union protection try treating pro's in other sports this way wouldn't happen!

Team sports of course totally different contract guarantees basic earnings be it football here or any US sport.If you are not picked frozen out half the players couldn't care less they will be paid regardless.

A bad contract in boxing is a whole different conundrum!
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Old 03-31-2013, 10:03 AM   #315
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Scrap very true in some parts!

The difference between Boxing & pretty much all other pro sports is the actual structure of a contract.If you are not fighting you are not earning simply because of maybe bad management or limited contacts.No union protection try treating pro's in other sports this way wouldn't happen!

Team sports of course totally different contract guarantees basic earnings be it football here or any US sport.If you are not picked frozen out half the players couldn't care less they will be paid regardless.

A bad contract in boxing is a whole different conundrum!
One side of me agrees with you,but I work with Sports People across the Board. My Feedback tells a different story.
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