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Old 04-04-2013, 11:35 AM   #1
Stevie G
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Default If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

How would things on the heavyweight scene follow ?
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

Foreman probably fights Frazier for the vacant belt and keeps hold of it until young comes along. I can't see anyone else aside from young beating that foreman.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #3
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Foreman probably fights Frazier for the vacant belt and keeps hold of it until young comes along. I can't see anyone else aside from young beating that foreman.

I envisage Foreman,Frazier and Norton involved in eliminators. I wonder who the fourth guy would have been.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

Would have to have been young.

Young-Frazier
Norton-Foreman

Might even be for the two separate belts lol.
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Old 04-04-2013, 11:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Would have to have been young.

Young-Frazier
Norton-Foreman

Might even be for the two separate belts lol.


Foreman repeats his victory over Norton,and Frazier decisons Young.

George beats Joe for the undisputed crown.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

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Foreman repeats his victory over Norton,and Frazier decisons Young.

George beats Joe for the undisputed crown.
It depends on how much Frazier had left. I'm not sure it's a given that Frazier beats him at all. Prime for prime I don't doubt it at all but mid70's Joe was a far cry from late 60's Joe.
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Old 04-04-2013, 12:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

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I envisage Foreman, Frazier and Norton involved in eliminators. I wonder who the fourth guy would have been.
Maybe Lyle, somebody Norton probably wanted no part of. Accounts have Young clearly getting the best of Shavers in their late November 1974 rematch, before schooling Lyle in February 1975 though, proving he was ready for Foreman by then.

If it was Jimmy in the mix, this is somebody Frazier could still defeat with his hustle and body punching orientation. Stylistically, I've never liked Norton's chances against Frazier, and Norton-Young is probably a pick-em bout at any time during their primes.

Holmes was not ready before Shavers I in 1978, while Frazier's June 1974 rematch with Jerry Quarry had taken Jerry out of the picture by Zaire.

Deliberate pairing in a tournament could produce a carefully managed outcome preferred by whoever governed the arrangement. However, my supposition is that Norton would be favored by that establishment. I don't see him getting to the vacated title and holding it long without having to deal with Shavers, Lyle, Young, Frazier (who still had Manila ahead of him when this vacancy would have occurred) and especially former conqueror Foreman at that stage.

Foreman would have the best shot at establishing himself as Ali's successor if he could get himself together quickly, but he'd have to recover from Zaire much, much faster than he did, and somehow motivate himself without the hope of redemption against his usurper. Frazier, without yet having suffered the toll of Manila, probably draws a bead on Foreman in a bid of his own for redemption.

Bugner was on a good streak after losing back to backs against Frazier and Ali in 1973. He was young and well-schooled, had good skills, hand speed, mobility, durability, power (when he chose to unload), stamina and experience. Bugner versus Young would be about as ghastly a nightmare as any promoter could dread, but Joe could be as much of a nightmare for Shavers and Foreman in the mid 1970s as Bugner-Young would have been for promoters and public. Ali liked Joe a great deal though, and may have thrown the weight of his support behind Bugner just as well as Norton, having expressed respect for both as skilled boxers.
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Old 04-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
It depends on how much Frazier had left. I'm not sure it's a given that Frazier beats him at all. Prime for prime I don't doubt it at all but mid70's Joe was a far cry from late 60's Joe.
It would be a Frazier that didn't fighti in Manila. He still had at least one great fight left. Young wouldn't have been able to keep Joe off of him. Bad style matchup for Jimmy Young.
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Old 04-04-2013, 07:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

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It would be a Frazier that didn't fighti in Manila. He still had at least one great fight left. Young wouldn't have been able to keep Joe off of him. Bad style matchup for Jimmy Young.
I agree that the Frazier from manilla would have stopped young.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

prime frazier beats foreman
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:40 AM   #11
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Default Re: If Muhammad Ali had retired after Zaire ?

Reviewing the list of top contenders after Zaire,I see the top 4 were -


Foreman
Frazier
Norton
Bugner



This would have been the elimination contest.
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