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View Poll Results: Does Ali/Ali's corners blatant use of banned substances to recover damage his legacy?
Yes 5 22.73%
No 17 77.27%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-05-2013, 06:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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Nah.. you can see it in the video. He stands up because he's semi unconscious. Who gets up like that, losing precious seconds to rest, just to show he can stand when he already showed that by returning to the corner?

I agree with the OP, it's very probable Ali would get KO'd. Smelling salts just revived him and it was showing in the 5th. It should have been a DQ loss for him actually.
You can be semi conscious for rounds of a boxing match and win rounds, nevermind not getting ko'd
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

One thing for sure, ali sure as hell liked eating left hooks ha
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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You can be semi conscious for rounds of a boxing match and win rounds, nevermind not getting ko'd
Exactly, apparently Ali couldnt remember a thing after he got hurt early in the Shavers fight
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #19
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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We should also change any fight where to an NC where the winner low blowed or headbutted or clinched excessively. It'll be fun, let's start a thread
This is not about accidental headbutts but the blatant use of illegal drugs, namely PEDs.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

Muscle memory is a powerful thing.

Look at Bradley against Prov a little while ago. Fought back tooth and nail while absolutely out on his feet.

Ali wasn't going anywhere. Too tough.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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You can be semi conscious for rounds of a boxing match and win rounds, nevermind not getting ko'd
Give me examples, theres a difference between not even knowing where you are/your perception of time being messed up (in the case of Ali) and being a little hazy in your mind.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:51 PM   #22
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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Originally Posted by freelaw View Post
Nah.. you can see it in the video. He stands up because he's semi unconscious. Who gets up like that, losing precious seconds to rest, just to show he can stand when he already showed that by returning to the corner?

I agree with the OP, it's very probable Ali would get KO'd. Smelling salts just revived him and it was showing in the 5th. It should have been a DQ loss for him actually.
Exactly. It's possible Ali's guts would have carried him on, but the more likely position was him losing by KO had he not been revived with the smelling salts.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:55 PM   #23
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

It's a fight anything could have happened but there is strong evidence to show he'd have survived. He was hurt more in round 11 in the frazier fight and he survived that. The man was a warrior!
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:55 PM   #24
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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I think it delegitimizes Ali's career somewhat since he was basically about to get knocked out by a journeyman. Admittedly it was his early career and he still was developing, but he shouldn't have had big problems with a man like Cooper.

Journeyman!!!! WTF!

isn't a journeyman a guy who travels around taking fights against the new guys in their hometowns?

List me all the other journeymen who fight at home in national football stadiums.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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Journeyman!!!! WTF!

isn't a journeyman a guy who travels around taking fights against the new guys in their hometowns?

List me all the other journeymen who fight at home in national football stadiums.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ])

A journeyman is a boxer who isn't skilled enough to compete at the world level either as a contender or a gatekeeper (fighter who tests other fighters wanting to challenge the world champion).

A good example of a journeyman boxer is someone like David Jaco and Henry Cooper.

A gatekeeper would be someone like Earnie Shavers or in more recent times Zab Judah.

A contender is someone like Floyd Mayweather Sr and Mustafa Hamsho.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:06 PM   #26
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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Cooper wasn't a contender? He fought for, won and defended national titles.
Brian London contended for a world title. Brian London.

Henry Cooper was a top 10 heavyweight on the planet. He was beyond the gatekeeper status, in my opinion. Not to many journeyman boxers that I know contend for world titles, or even beat men who contended.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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Originally Posted by xRedx View Post
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ])

A journeyman is a boxer who isn't skilled enough to compete at the world level either as a contender or a gatekeeper (fighter who tests other fighters wanting to challenge the world champion).

A good example of a journeyman boxer is someone like David Jaco and Henry Cooper.

A gatekeeper would be someone like Earnie Shavers or in more recent times Zab Judah.

A contender is someone like Floyd Mayweather Sr and Mustafa Hamsho.
Funny you say that, didn't our Enry challenge for the heavyweight title against good old Muhammad Ali????
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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Give me examples, theres a difference between not even knowing where you are/your perception of time being messed up (in the case of Ali) and being a little hazy in your mind.
Okay, I gave you Bradley-Provodnikov just this last weekend.

Gatti-Ward, many rounds in both fights are examples of badly hurt men fighting back with a tremendous amount of success(Gatti dominates round 10 of the first fight after suffering perhaps the worst round a boxer can suffer and survive in the ninth).

Corrales gets dropped twice, has no legs, and can't see, and knocks out Castillo by basically swinging for the fences.

Holyfield fought back against Bowe despite being badly stunned and wobbled. Bowe did the same the round after being victimized prison style by Golota in their rematch.

Lamon Brewster fought back strong in the 10th round of his fight with Liakhovich, despite being badly, badly hurt in the ninth(concussed, as he later confirmed).

Sugar Ray Robinson was in tremendous trouble against Giardello, being heavily dropped, appearing shaky and unfocused, and being clearly saved by the bell in the the sixth round, and he came back to dominate the seventh.

There are more.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:15 PM   #29
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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Funny you say that, didn't our Enry challenge for the heavyweight title against good old Muhammad Ali????
True, I just saw that. My mistake.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:16 PM   #30
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali and PEDs

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Give me examples, theres a difference between not even knowing where you are/your perception of time being messed up (in the case of Ali) and being a little hazy in your mind.
There's countless examples, guys who've boxed will know what I'm talking about, you can be semi conscious and keep fighting. Plenty of fighters lose their faculties and their legs and come back and win.

But if you want an example Ray Leonard said he didn't know where he was for rounds after the second against Duran

Clay had 60 seconds to recover from a punch he already got up from. He wasn't going to have much trouble surviving after a 65 seconds break.

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Originally Posted by xRedx View Post
This is not about accidental headbutts but the blatant use of illegal drugs, namely PEDs.
Smelling salts aren't PEDs, Anyway what's the difference between 1 form of cheating and another?

Ali used PEDs well past his prime though but anyway only people who never take exercise seriously worry about PEDs anyway
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