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Old 04-05-2013, 03:14 AM   #91
choklab
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Default Re: debunking the myth of louis being completely past it ...

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Originally Posted by Rex Tickard View Post




If you want to discuss contemporary views of him, you'll find that his contemporaries also acknowledged his difficulties in using the right all through his comeback. One writer even commented that "It's as if his right never knows what his left his doing."
NO, I think you have latched onto the one handed myth and wont let go. The films show a capable two handed fighter. People said that but it was only in comparision to what Louis had been at his dazling best As a young stud. For a regular contender Louis was still a top performer. Outside of the champion, better than the rest until proven otherwise.Joe had adapted his econamy as older fighters often do - he was slower but he used feints and used less combinations - so what? He was not a one handed fighter. He was not broken. He was still a genuine world class contender. The film, facts and results speak for themselves.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:28 AM   #92
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Default Re: debunking the myth of louis being completely past it ...

i'll have to find that book which states he had very limited use of his right hand.rocky beat what was in front of him, but it was a shell of the original joe louis
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:41 AM   #93
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Default Re: debunking the myth of louis being completely past it ...

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Which films specifically bear this out? In the films I've seen, he uses his right hand sparingly and without the same snap and power he showed back in his heyday.

Look at him against Lee Savold, which was one of the very few (maybe only?) genuine KOs he scored during his comeback:
BORKED

Louis fights almost exclusively one-handed for entire two-or-three minute stretches, even though Savold is standing upright and wide open for the right hand much of the time. And when Louis does throw his right, many of them look like chops. When the KO finally does come, it's from a hook, not a right.

His fights with Brion also show him using the right hand very sparingly.
he also seemed to leaning forward a lot more than he did in his prime ?????
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Old 04-05-2013, 01:47 PM   #94
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Default Re: debunking the myth of louis being completely past it ...

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i'll have to find that book which states he had very limited use of his right hand.rocky beat what was in front of him, but it was a shell of the original joe louis
Limited use of the right had does not equate to only having one hand. What non participants of the sport dont understand is it is harder to time a right hand than a punch from the front hand against a smaller opponent. Writers are very articulate but they dont take into account what adjustments it takes for an older or bigger but still good fighter to be effective.

Joe Louis got broader and more muscle bound as he got older. It meant he had to hide his rear shoulder from the opposition because it is easier for an opponent to react before the right lands if he can watch it being drawn across the chest as it travels. Joe was forced to adjust his footing so that he was more side on but it meant his right hand was that further away from target. The leaner and more supple Joe Louis could fire shots directly from the stance because he had such an athletic edge over just about any fighter who ever lived.

As Joes body matured he became less of an athlete but more of a stronger specimen. He was no longer built in a way where he could let a right hand go knowing the other guy could not see it coming. It altered the way Joe had to fight in order to be successful.

He was still effective but because joe would never throw unless he was certain to land it took him longer to orchestrate the clean openings for the right hand to come off the lefts. It was easier to jab the man into the direction of the right and thats why he leaned over as Louis came in with the jab in later fights. He still got the job done with both hands but he was more restricted when you break down his style adjustments. He knew what he was doing. The film bares this out.

Last edited by choklab; 04-05-2013 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 04-05-2013, 10:49 PM   #95
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Default Re: debunking the myth of louis being completely past it ...

Louis still was a very capable guy
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:01 AM   #96
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Default Re: debunking the myth of louis being completely past it ...

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Originally Posted by choklab View Post
Limited use of the right had does not equate to only having one hand. What non participants of the sport dont understand is it is harder to time a right hand than a punch from the front hand against a smaller opponent. Writers are very articulate but they dont take into account what adjustments it takes for an older or bigger but still good fighter to be effective.

Joe Louis got broader and more muscle bound as he got older. It meant he had to hide his rear shoulder from the opposition because it is easier for an opponent to react before the right lands if he can watch it being drawn across the chest as it travels. Joe was forced to adjust his footing so that he was more side on but it meant his right hand was that further away from target. The leaner and more supple Joe Louis could fire shots directly from the stance because he had such an athletic edge over just about any fighter who ever lived.

As Joes body matured he became less of an athlete but more of a stronger specimen. He was no longer built in a way where he could let a right hand go knowing the other guy could not see it coming. It altered the way Joe had to fight in order to be successful.

He was still effective but because joe would never throw unless he was certain to land it took him longer to orchestrate the clean openings for the right hand to come off the lefts. It was easier to jab the man into the direction of the right and thats why he leaned over as Louis came in with the jab in later fights. He still got the job done with both hands but he was more restricted when you break down his style adjustments. He knew what he was doing. The film bares this out.
i boxed for 5 years and am now a coach yes i understand how hard it is to rotate and land the back (right) hand as mine wasnt particulary good.i still believe louis only had limited use.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:13 AM   #97
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Default Re: debunking the myth of louis being completely past it ...

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i boxed for 5 years and am now a coach yes i understand how hard it is to rotate and land the back (right) hand as mine wasnt particulary good.i still believe louis only had limited use.
You're a boxing coach after boxing for only 5 years? Wow.
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Old 04-06-2013, 04:19 AM   #98
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Default Re: debunking the myth of louis being completely past it ...

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You're a boxing coach after boxing for only 5 years? Wow.
the five years that i boxed were in the 70's and early 80's, then i had a go at coaching which came to nothing made a comeback and after a gap of 28 years started coaching again at amateur level.
some of the best coches/trainers never boxed and it doesnt matter whether you have or (i used to think it did) not i dont think
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Old 04-06-2013, 11:07 AM   #99
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Default Re: debunking the myth of louis being completely past it ...

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i boxed for 5 years and am now a coach yes i understand how hard it is to rotate and land the back (right) hand as mine wasnt particulary good.i still believe louis only had limited use.
I had t he same problem.

Limited use of the right hand for Joe Louis still equates to being a good right hand puncher for anyone else,especially when he was still flooring decent fighters with it.

Post war louis was less of a two handed puncher for all the reasons i mentioned before. He had become more muscle bound as he filled out and it restricted his punch variety so he adapted and was still effective with both hands. In flashes when he could trap a fighter it was still there but it was just that second or two harder to pull the trigger compared to the way he could before the war. most of the time he was content to beat a man down with jabs and walk them onto one or two piece counters.

Unless he was fighting great fighters Old Louis was a round or three slower getting the job done. To hear some people a 1951 Louis would not have got past Johnny Paycheck but this is simply not true. Louis was highly regarded in 1951 and could have started favourite had he been matched with Walcott rather than Marciano. In 51' Only Charles was considered better than Louis who Walcott had failed against twice already.

Last edited by choklab; 04-06-2013 at 11:24 AM.
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