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Old 04-06-2013, 06:21 PM   #1
mattdonnellon
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Default Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

PARIS. April 20. (UP)-1933
Dempsey, In the opinion of Jack
Johnson, was a palooka. who could
never have beaten Jim Corbett, Bob
Fitzsimmons or Jim Jeffries.
Moreover, the modest Negro ex-heavywelght champion writes in a
current Paris journal. Dempsey
would have been a set-up for Jack
Johnson In his prime. On one occasion in New York during an exhibition bout, Johnson asserts, he
broke one of Dempsey's ribs after
four rounds of fighting, and that
thereafter the Manassa Mauler steered clear of him ,as he did of Harry
Greb.
"Dempsey's one great power,"
Johnson's article states, "was the
most adroit of managers, Jack
Kearns. As soon as they separated,
Dempsey's defeat was inevitable.
"Dempsey never encountered any
of the 'classic' boxers of the past.
For example, Corbett would have
proved much too slippery. Dempsey
could never have placed his right on
Corbett, and thus he would never
have been in a position to deliver
his only fairly, powerful left. In
four or five rounds. Corbett would
have closed Dempsey's eyes.
"Dempsey never would have had a
chance against an agile, slippery opponent. This was shown several
times, and before he was defeated by
Tunney. Once during his training
I saw Joe Gans make him look
ridiculous. Harry Greb also made
him look like an amateur.
"The 'manklller' reputation Dempsey acquired was adroitly built up by
Kearns, but It was a myth so far as
his ability was concerned. He was a
good puncher, moderately fast, but
it Is absurd to class him with Sam
Langford, Peter Maher, Fltzsimmions
or even myself at my best, if I may
say so.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:50 PM   #2
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Mike Tyson respected Jack Dempsey. Johnson's arguments are thus negated.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #3
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

How anyone can hold a man in such high steen when he got one bombed by a fireman is beyond me
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:17 PM   #4
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
How anyone can hold a man in such high steen when he got one bombed by a fireman is beyond me
And he wasn't even a fireman!
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdonnellon View Post
And he wasn't even a fireman!
Well that's even worse!

Dempsey just dropped 8 places to number 79
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:29 PM   #6
mattdonnellon
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Mike Bruce, Gypsy Daniels, Haines, Cardiff, Cox, Banks, Lowry, Hall, Marshall, Puritty, Isaac, well Flynn deserves his place in this Hall-of-Flame.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

All joking aside I wonder why Johnson held Dempsey in such low esteem. I mean gibbons fits the description and Dempsey dominated him by all accounts. I know miske gave him trouble though.

Then again I guess that's how boxing works eh, only recently Lewis has been saying wlad would never have been champ in his era. I'd take it with a pinch of salt of course.

Johnson v Dempsey would have been great to see. Could Dempsey outwork Johnson with his aggressive attacks, or would jack pick him apart with that punishing lead uppercut.

Never before heard he broke his ribs but it's interesting to note he accused him of ducking Greb.

Nice to see a shoutout for Maher as well, seems he's the forgotten mam of that era.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Maher probably was the biggest hitter of that period a la Shavers. Johnson liked him, Maher for his part fought more good black heavyweights than anybody pre-Marciano. I dunno, Gibbons was no Johnson, both good boxers but Jack bigger, much stronger, heavier and probably a bigger puncher. Be a great fight though v Jack Dempsey, as he would sure as Hell get Johnson out of his comfort zone and we'd know for sure just how good he was.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:51 PM   #9
Ted Stickles
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Jack was tough but it always bothered me that he didn't fight the top black fighters and he was inactive for 2 years.The first slick fighter he did fight was Tunney and we all know that story.But the thread is accurate in that his manager was very smart and back then people believed what they read.
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Old 04-06-2013, 07:55 PM   #10
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdonnellon View Post
Maher probably was the biggest hitter of that period a la Shavers. Johnson liked him, Maher for his part fought more good black heavyweights than anybody pre-Marciano. I dunno, Gibbons was no Johnson, both good boxers but Jack bigger, much stronger, heavier and probably a bigger puncher. Be a great fight though v Jack Dempsey, as he would sure as Hell get Johnson out of his comfort zone and we'd know for sure just how good he was.
I'd rate gibbons above Corbett though.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I'd rate gibbons above Corbett though.
I'm not sure I would, Corbett hung tough with better big punching Heavyweight punchers in Jeffries, Sullivan, Sharkey and also with smaller punchers like Fitz , and Choynsky.
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Old 04-06-2013, 09:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdonnellon View Post
PARIS. April 20. (UP)-1933
Dempsey, In the opinion of Jack
Johnson, was a palooka. who could
never have beaten Jim Corbett, Bob
Fitzsimmons or Jim Jeffries.
Moreover, the modest Negro ex-heavywelght champion writes in a
current Paris journal. Dempsey
would have been a set-up for Jack
Johnson In his prime. On one occasion in New York during an exhibition bout, Johnson asserts, he
broke one of Dempsey's ribs after
four rounds of fighting, and that
thereafter the Manassa Mauler steered clear of him ,as he did of Harry
Greb.
"Dempsey's one great power,"
Johnson's article states, "was the
most adroit of managers, Jack
Kearns. As soon as they separated,
Dempsey's defeat was inevitable.
"Dempsey never encountered any
of the 'classic' boxers of the past.
For example, Corbett would have
proved much too slippery. Dempsey
could never have placed his right on
Corbett, and thus he would never
have been in a position to deliver
his only fairly, powerful left. In
four or five rounds. Corbett would
have closed Dempsey's eyes.
"Dempsey never would have had a
chance against an agile, slippery opponent. This was shown several
times, and before he was defeated by
Tunney. Once during his training
I saw Joe Gans make him look
ridiculous. Harry Greb also made
him look like an amateur.
"The 'manklller' reputation Dempsey acquired was adroitly built up by
Kearns, but It was a myth so far as
his ability was concerned. He was a
good puncher, moderately fast, but
it Is absurd to class him with Sam
Langford, Peter Maher, Fltzsimmions
or even myself at my best, if I may
say so.
Jack Johnson was a con artist who is not to be taken too seriously as an
unbiased boxing observer.For EXAMPLE his article above states "once during his [Dempsey's] training, I saw JOE GANS make him [Dempsey] look ridiculous ",Unquote....The only problem with this Jack Johnson nonsense is that the LW Joe Gans DIED in 1910 from tuberculosis, years before Dempsey turned pro......Maybe Johnson was refering to the ghost of Joe Gans....?
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:16 PM   #13
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Stickles View Post
Jack was tough but it always bothered me that he didn't fight the top black fighters and he was inactive for 2 years.The first slick fighter he did fight was Tunney and we all know that story.But the thread is accurate in that his manager was very smart and back then people believed what they read.
This B.S. propaganda that Jack Dempsey did not fight the TOP black FIGHTERS [plural] in his title reign has to be rebutted time and again....The ONLY viable black heavyweight threat during the early 1920s, before Dempsey went Hollywood, was Harry Wills who even then was in his early 30s...Though they did sign with a Michigan promotor...Sam McVea, Sam Langford, Jack Johnson, Joe Jeannette were pushing 40 by then and were retired....So let's be real ... Would Dempsey fight the above black fighters were they in their 20s and active is purely hypothetical....But
until I started on the internet the only black viable heavyweight Dempsey
did not fight was the DESERVING Harry Wills, and acknowleged by the boxing writers of those times....There is no fighter on ESB that get's
such a lacing from some posters that the Manassa Mauler gets...
Too darn bad giving the shaft to a beloved figure that Dempsey was for
over 50 long years...Shame...,
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:40 PM   #14
Seamus
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
All joking aside I wonder why Johnson held Dempsey in such low esteem.
He held everyone not named John Arthur Johnson in low esteem.

He was a total ****ing prick.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:06 AM   #15
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Johnson on Dempsey-nice titbits here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
He held everyone not named John Arthur Johnson in low esteem.

TouHe was a total ****ing prick.
Touche'
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