Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Boxing Training/Amateur Boxing


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-02-2013, 10:47 AM   #346
Makingweight
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North London
Posts: 740
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Another old lost tale from 1920's America.
A manager & a fighter who shared an unbroken bond until the day one of them died.
Billy Miske a real tough old school heavyweight,skilled fighter & only came up short against the best of the day he fought them all Dempsey,Gibbons Battling Levinsky,Harry Greb & Fireman Flynn amongst the opponents.
He had an extremely close relationship with his manager Jack Reddy he trusted Jack totally.He had his last fight in 1923 but the story goes back to 1918 Miske tells his manager after a fight he has kidney pain & they go to see a specialist doctor.
It turns out he has Bright's Disease or commonly known as kidney failure the doctor tells him his fight career is over & so will his life be in five years it can't be cured.

Miske swears the doctor & his manager to secrecy it doesn't come out until his final days even his wife is unaware of his terminal illness he has children he wants to fight on for his family's future.

Billy does fight on in fact over 70 times with a condition he could never beat the final count on.He invest's in a automobile business it goes wrong & at one point he is $100k down.Miske does what he always did fight on & paid it off he takes a purse of $18k for his last fight with Dempsey he uses every cent to pay off his creditors Miske always a man of honour.After his death Dempsey recount's the story of their last fight he hit Minske around the heart a purple lump swelled up.Dempsey thought he had killed him never knew what a condition Miske had one of his bravest opponents he always said.

The condition worsened still he fought on in January 1923 the last full year of his life he is barely able to train & weakening daily he still fights on Harry Foley is his opponent in the first round a fighter is knocked down six times in 42 seconds not surprising really..........except it is Foley the recipient.Miske in no mood to hang around in there he hasn't got the time.

With Xmas 1923 coming up the only thing thinner than Billy's arm's are his wallet it's been 10 months since he has fought an eternity back in the day & rumours are floating around which a journalist gets wind of.

Miske begs Reddy to get him one last payday almost bed bound by now & on a soup diet a local journalist wants to run the story on how ill Miske had become & exposing Reddy as a corrupt manager.The journalist is told the truth & Billy's financial plight he wanted to put his house in order & pay for a great xmas for his family the journalist relents & holds fire.

07/11/23 Miske fights Billy Brennan it nets him $2,400 purse the fight is over in four rounds Miske wins by k.o.The family have a last xmas to remember.

The day after xmas Miske calls Reddy to take him to the hospital his time is almost up.
On the way to the hospital he finally tells his wife the severity of his condition.Miske dies on new years day 1924 aged 29 Hollywood has really missed a story.
Makingweight is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-02-2013, 02:23 PM   #347
HairyHighlander
BASS !! HOWLOWCANUGO ??
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bullet stylee since day UNO ! ! !
Posts: 4,171
vCash: 1000
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

That's some story MW.....and thank you for it.

Do you have any cutsmen stories/happenings MW/Dempsey?


Cheers......belter of a thread btw.


HairyHighlander is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2013, 12:14 AM   #348
dempsey1234
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Quote:
Originally Posted by HairyHighlander View Post
That's some story MW.....and thank you for it.

Do you have any cutsmen stories/happenings MW/Dempsey?


Cheers......belter of a thread btw.


Joe Souza was my cutman right up to when his health was fading. Joe was always telling everybody that I gave him his first hundred, he was a good man.
Google: Joe Souza: the cutman part 1, part 2
He had so many tricks, it's too bad he didn't get a chance to put some of those tricks of the trade down on paper.
dempsey1234 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-08-2013, 08:37 PM   #349
Makingweight
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North London
Posts: 740
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Born Maxwell Antonio Loach he was given the name Matthew Franklin in his formative years and early fight career before converting to islam using a third name Matthew Saad Muhammad.His life never straightforward from the get go it's fair to say his fight career mirrored that fact.
With a ring record of 48w-16d-3 draws younger fans would be suprised to learn he was an inductee in the boxing hall of fame.You got it all with him highlight reel ko victories and also defeats the Ring magazine at that time had him at 24 in their top 100 punchers the overhand right like a sledgehammer it got him out of trouble in many a fight.

In 1979 he defended his title against the uk's John Conteh in a classic boxer v brawler light heavyweight title fight.It was in Atlantic City,New Jersey a past his peak Conteh still only in his late 20's but hindered by hand injuries & a weakness for women had trained hard refocused.He had reunited with George Francis as his trainer,they had split a while back Francis was also his manager money issues had been buried.Conteh after leaving Francis originally lured by the promises & legally binding Don King contract found the grass was certainly not greener under DKP nor the most important green of all money.

MSM was a real fighter of his time at one point he had an entourage of 60 who they were he said he didn't know half of them or what they did.He had no idea how much he earned in his career $2-4m he thought his management took care of his money of that fact he didn't dispute as he never knew the figures.Let alone bank it.

He was a fighter who always just got on with his work never questioned anything except only once before the Conteh fight.His manager Nick Belfiore wanted to use a different cutman but this one time MSM put his foot down & insisted Adolf Ritacco & his box of tricks stayed in employment for this fight.

The fight under the old 15 round championship distance got off to a very fast start for Conteh rolling back the years to the mid 70's he peppered MSM face with jabs making him miss then punishing him.He opens up a cut in the 5th in the 6th it totally splits.
The fight almost becomes Ritacco v Conteh as his box of tricks seem to be working a massive cut he has managed to stem the bleeding.The fight turns & going back to his corner Conteh complains that he cannot see properly his eyes are stinging at the end of 9th Francis is going crazy at the ringside officials & cry foul play.

Between rounds Ritacco's work is being monitored how did this man stem a cut that you could tell was almost down to the bone long,deep open & thick?

MSM gets on top in the championship rounds clubbing overhand rights into Conteh who physically can't keep him off through tiredness & blurred vision.Conteh battered to the floor in the 14th bravely gets up at 9 sees the fight out on the cards & loses on a UD.

The complaints of Conteh's corner are investigated afterwards.MSM corner had been found to have used a high level mixture of adrenaline chloride & tea leaves Ritacco helped the champ to keep his title to fight another day & a rematch ordered.

MSM makes no mistake second time out a 4th round TKO the young gun brutally takes Conteh apart no need to use Ritacco's tricks & you certainly didn't need to read the tea leaves to find out the result.You can always count on a clever cutman in this game.
Makingweight is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 03:43 PM   #350
dempsey1234
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makingweight View Post
Born Maxwell Antonio Loach he was given the name Matthew Franklin in his formative years and early fight career before converting to islam using a third name Matthew Saad Muhammad.His life never straightforward from the get go it's fair to say his fight career mirrored that fact.
With a ring record of 48w-16d-3 draws younger fans would be suprised to learn he was an inductee in the boxing hall of fame.You got it all with him highlight reel ko victories and also defeats the Ring magazine at that time had him at 24 in their top 100 punchers the overhand right like a sledgehammer it got him out of trouble in many a fight.

In 1979 he defended his title against the uk's John Conteh in a classic boxer v brawler light heavyweight title fight.It was in Atlantic City,New Jersey a past his peak Conteh still only in his late 20's but hindered by hand injuries & a weakness for women had trained hard refocused.He had reunited with George Francis as his trainer,they had split a while back Francis was also his manager money issues had been buried.Conteh after leaving Francis originally lured by the promises & legally binding Don King contract found the grass was certainly not greener under DKP nor the most important green of all money.

MSM was a real fighter of his time at one point he had an entourage of 60 who they were he said he didn't know half of them or what they did.He had no idea how much he earned in his career $2-4m he thought his management took care of his money of that fact he didn't dispute as he never knew the figures.Let alone bank it.

He was a fighter who always just got on with his work never questioned anything except only once before the Conteh fight.His manager Nick Belfiore wanted to use a different cutman but this one time MSM put his foot down & insisted Adolf Ritacco & his box of tricks stayed in employment for this fight.

The fight under the old 15 round championship distance got off to a very fast start for Conteh rolling back the years to the mid 70's he peppered MSM face with jabs making him miss then punishing him.He opens up a cut in the 5th in the 6th it totally splits.
The fight almost becomes Ritacco v Conteh as his box of tricks seem to be working a massive cut he has managed to stem the bleeding.The fight turns & going back to his corner Conteh complains that he cannot see properly his eyes are stinging at the end of 9th Francis is going crazy at the ringside officials & cry foul play.

Between rounds Ritacco's work is being monitored how did this man stem a cut that you could tell was almost down to the bone long,deep open & thick?

MSM gets on top in the championship rounds clubbing overhand rights into Conteh who physically can't keep him off through tiredness & blurred vision.Conteh battered to the floor in the 14th bravely gets up at 9 sees the fight out on the cards & loses on a UD.

The complaints of Conteh's corner are investigated afterwards.MSM corner had been found to have used a high level mixture of adrenaline chloride & tea leaves Ritacco helped the champ to keep his title to fight another day & a rematch ordered.

MSM makes no mistake second time out a 4th round TKO the young gun brutally takes Conteh apart no need to use Ritacco's tricks & you certainly didn't need to read the tea leaves to find out the result.You can always count on a clever cutman in this game.
M, keep 'em comin', great piece always looking forward to your next.
dempsey1234 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2013, 08:46 PM   #351
dempsey1234
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Beware of boxrec experts and some fathers. An unbeaten 132 pd, fighter who is 9-0, 7ko's, fought a guy from Colorado, who had a 7-7-2, 1ko record, recently. The contracted weight was 135. After the fight the father called the manager and started to read him the riot act. The father said the opponent was huge and he had been fighting welterweights.
He checked with boxrec and saw the guy, fought 5 fights over 140pds, out of 16 fights.
You have to know how to read a record you just cant take it at face value. The guy had fought from 132-144pds. The guy as most Colorado guys are tough and durable and usually travel as opponents. Colorado, is the wildwest of boxing, those guys have to fight at any weight if they want to fight. The 9-0, guy was figured to go the distance and win a decision, which is what happened. The colorado guy made the weight, the unbeaten fighter didn't make weight he weighed 137 1/2. The father thinking he was fighting a welter told the fighter to come in heavy.
The manager told the father to call the promoter and start crying about how unfair life is.
Bottomline the opponent made the agreeed upon weight, and the unbeaten won a decision. How can you argue that the guy was a welter when he made the weight and the unbeaten didnt, plus how can you argue about a guy that has a 7-7 record, please.
dempsey1234 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 09:53 AM   #352
HairyHighlander
BASS !! HOWLOWCANUGO ??
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bullet stylee since day UNO ! ! !
Posts: 4,171
vCash: 1000
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Forgot about this thread/previous post and cheers.


Read the ones you mentioned already Souza......got some more somewhere saved too I think.

That's a BELTER of a story also MW and i aint ever seen that fight......until now.

Am off to watch it.......keep them coming.


Class
HairyHighlander is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 12:21 PM   #353
Makingweight
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North London
Posts: 740
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dempsey1234 View Post
Beware of boxrec experts and some fathers. An unbeaten 132 pd, fighter who is 9-0, 7ko's, fought a guy from Colorado, who had a 7-7-2, 1ko record, recently. The contracted weight was 135. After the fight the father called the manager and started to read him the riot act. The father said the opponent was huge and he had been fighting welterweights.
He checked with boxrec and saw the guy, fought 5 fights over 140pds, out of 16 fights.
You have to know how to read a record you just cant take it at face value. The guy had fought from 132-144pds. The guy as most Colorado guys are tough and durable and usually travel as opponents. Colorado, is the wildwest of boxing, those guys have to fight at any weight if they want to fight. The 9-0, guy was figured to go the distance and win a decision, which is what happened. The colorado guy made the weight, the unbeaten fighter didn't make weight he weighed 137 1/2. The father thinking he was fighting a welter told the fighter to come in heavy.
The manager told the father to call the promoter and start crying about how unfair life is.
Bottomline the opponent made the agreeed upon weight, and the unbeaten won a decision. How can you argue that the guy was a welter when he made the weight and the unbeaten didnt, plus how can you argue about a guy that has a 7-7 record, please.
It does become the case of what do actually want?Given all the advantages of house fighter,promoter etc.etc surprised the father didn't complain that the opponent threw punches back.The complaints he made will do his son no favours no one likes a whingeing loser let alone a winner.

Good to see next month Top Rank have matched up Abie Han v Glenn Tapia both are at the stage they need to be moved up a level.Han at 28 has to now sink or swim Tapia at 23 but similar level of opponent lets see where we are at real good opportunity for both & will be a really entertaining fight IMO.Fans here in the uk that enjoy good domestic fights worth keeping a eye out for this fight.

Last edited by Makingweight; 05-11-2013 at 12:36 PM.
Makingweight is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2013, 12:58 PM   #354
dempsey1234
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

The Abie Han - Glen Tapia, fight from a managers POV, can be viewed as an opportunity to move ahead but realistically it's "a toss of the dice" fight. Both have to know that this is their "Title" fight. Everything is on the line, their promotional deal, they each have one loss and you're out clause, the loser will have a hard time coming back, depending on what type of fight it turns out to be. A smart manager realizes this and prepares for war.
From a promoter's POV, neither one has achieved much they are still fighting pretty much the same type of guys, neither has developed anykind of fan base, or buzz. So this fight could be to the promoter a "Flush the toilet fight", the loser gets dropped, and the promoter gets a TV date. The winner will go to the next round maybe facing the same risk.
dempsey1234 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 05:48 AM   #355
Makingweight
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North London
Posts: 740
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

When a manager signs a fighter it's fair to say you need to know who you are going to be dealing with regardless of can they fight,sell tickets & a fan friendly style.
What are they like outside of the ring do they live the life?Train when they say they do,eat well & who do they hang with all these questions flag up & more.

Al'Yah Yah'Dickens never had this problem on any level he knew where his fighter was at 24'/7 he managed James Scott they were always in each others company why you ask?

They were in prison together the Rahway, New Jersey Scott could fight he was a man that worked his way up the rankings he fought all contenders he was focused 100% well what else would you be in his situation?

Scott always argued he should never of been inside he lent his car to a 'friend' the guy it turned out was a drug dealer the deal went wrong the car traced back to Scott.He was sent to trial on the back of being a accessory to murder on a hung jury verdict another fighter that let's be fair can bitch all day long about a split decision not going his way.

The USA at the time invested money in prison boxing programmes Scott at the Rahway benefited from this & developed himself into a very,very good fighter he was a guy that had only one goal other than getting out of prison to be a contender to get his justice in the ring.

He never claimed to be the best fighter out of the Rahway Rueben Carter also served time there they sparred together Scott the first to admit he found the sparring with Carter harder than most of his pro fights.Carter also said the same about Scott some endorsement.

On the back of the high quality sparring shown professional boxing was bought into the Rahway. Scott showcased & beat all put in front of him the audience pro Scott captive & to pardon a pun there would be no robberies on the cards.His fights were shown on most major tv USA platforms.

The inmates were totally pro Scott when he fought Richie Kates who was a correctional officer in another prison.Kates was stopped in the last round of 10 he said by far the best opponent he faced.He joked had it of gone to the cards there was no way he would of won as there would of been a riot!

Opponents were bought in & despatched with ease Bunny Johnson from the uk known as very tough & durable quit on his stool at the end of the 7th Scott was getting towards a title shot.Cometti quit also end of the 5th.Lonnie Bennet came into the Rahway a ranked fighter the best he got on the cards 8-2 against Scott was certainly in the title mix.

He was matched with Jerry Martin the toughest guy Scott said he faced Scott was dropped in the 1st & 2nd rounds he lost on the cards 6-4 rounds on two cards close but at that point he knew the dream of being the champion was gone.It had been some journey he had beaten contenders no one ducked he had been ranked in the top 3 of all bodies then his ranking was pulled why?Sure you can all hazard a guess political?

His last pro fight was against Dwight Braxton he lost on the cards no shame there.
Braxton would later be known as Dwight Muhammad Quai a HOF fighter that was every opponents nightmare win,lose or draw.

Quai also served some time in prison.......the Rahway also fair to say Scott didn't get his shot but there would be a argument that at the time being champ of that prison you were world class.Carter,Qawi & the forgotten Scott all top drawer.

There were no ring earnings for Scott 104K was spent by the tv networks showing his fights it went straight back into the public funding in New Jersey which to be fair they invested back into the boxing programme.

Scott served his time & was trusted to travel outside the prison to coach & train convicted on the back of a split decision.

He raised 104k in tv revenue alone model inmate that cost the USA 41k a year to house it's fair to say the split decision should & could of gone the other way.
Makingweight is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:31 PM   #356
dempsey1234
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Hats off to the Brit's (Burns and McDonnell) they came through against solid latino competition. This is good for UK boxing.
dempsey1234 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 11:11 AM   #357
sooners4life98
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 32
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Dempsey. I want to become a manager but don't have experience in the boxing industry. I am in Oklahoma City, OK. Do you know of any gym, manager, promoter that would be willing to help? Should add our gym options are very very limited in these parts. I have learned a lot of info from this thread alone than the past two years of trying to do some research. I know I am a newbie to this site but any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
sooners4life98 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 04:19 PM   #358
dempsey1234
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 711
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sooners4life98 View Post
Dempsey. I want to become a manager but don't have experience in the boxing industry. I am in Oklahoma City, OK. Do you know of any gym, manager, promoter that would be willing to help? Should add our gym options are very very limited in these parts. I have learned a lot of info from this thread alone than the past two years of trying to do some research. I know I am a newbie to this site but any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
It just so happens I have a fighter from OC. I would ask Buck Smith for advice, everybody knows him. You could try asking Bobby Dobbs who does shows in different Okla sites, he is a promoter/manager. I dont think Dobbs and Buck get along, so if you talk to one dont tell the other.
If you need advice just post. Good luck
dempsey1234 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 05:17 PM   #359
sooners4life98
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 32
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Thanks for the open invite to ask questions and on who to contact. What is the best way to find my fighters sponsors? I don't have any money to invest in my future fighters so would a 10% management fee be ok? I know there are some dirty folks in this business and I am not going to be one of them. One more question, would it be the right thing to do to have a lawyer draw up a few contracts to give to my potential prospects or can this be done on my own? Thanks for the help in advance.
sooners4life98 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 05:25 PM   #360
sooners4life98
newbie
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oklahoma City, OK
Posts: 32
vCash: 500
Default Re: I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Thanks for the heads up with Dobbs and Buck. Beef in OKC.
sooners4life98 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Boxing Training/Amateur Boxing

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013