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Old 05-28-2013, 03:30 PM   #31
thewinfella
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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The best techincal strikers in mma are guys like T. Spong, Pettis. Mcregor, aldo
Barboza
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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Look at all these 12 year olds don't know shit, talking crap about Hunt lol. Guy is nearly 40 years old, I been watching K1 and MMA since you were little runts running around with your teletubbies.

Yeah, I grew up with He man and Gi Joe. Go **** yourselves.
/thread.

Truth be told it was a great fight. JDS did what he was supposed to do. Hunt has been doing this a loooong time and has a ton of wear and tear. All he ever had was a punchers chance. But he went out on his shield the PRIDE way.
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Old 05-28-2013, 05:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

BORKED
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Old 05-28-2013, 09:20 PM   #34
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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BORKED
Yeah? And what does that prove?

Bob Sapp was a professional American level athlete who was on so many drugs, but also so strong and freaky large that he has the ability to hurt anybody.

Do you have any idea how large he runs around? He's 6'7" tall and nearly 350 lbs of muscle. He had the endurance (possibly on the EPO drug back in the day) to compete with these fighters for rounds at a time.

I don't think you fully appreciate what a 350lbs of strength athlete can do as far as damage with minimal training. Brock Lesnar looks like a Toddler compared to Sapp, I repeat, he was 6'7", 350 lbs of strength athlete on drugs, and out of his mind. Also, keep in mind other K1 fighters like Mirco beat him, actually shattered his orbital with a well placed left cross. Still took two of those well placed on his face to make him wilt. People didn't know that Sapp didn't like to get hit in the face back then, you can see Hoost working the leg trying to slow Sapp down, but he couldn't do it quickly enough.. Everyone knows now that Sapp doesn't like being hit in the face, especially since Mirco broke it so many years ago. When your face breaks, you generally don't come back as well.
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I'm not saying Sap was a skilled athlete, but I don't see too many people outside of worlds strongest man running around at that size competing at anything other than wsm and the NFL, maybe Rugby.

As far as JDS and his MMA striking, it's great. He seems to be best when he utilizes his superior range and mobility. His right hand isn't something you would see in K1 or boxing, but it's clearly very effective with MMA gloves as It doesn't need to land clean as it's generally a thudding punch that he likes to loop overhand to target the temple or behind the ear. Couldn't get away with that punch in boxing with the bigger gloves. He can land that punch and even if you block it with your own gloves and hands, you will probably go down/ most pro fighters would go down by the sheer force/ momentum behind it as Hunt did who's a stout 260.

JDS' style is one where he can simply start engaging from longer ranges with his jab and circle. The octagon is a lot different cutting someone off than a ring, the way JDS was using the circumpherance of the octagon was when he was at his best.. He was retreating from Hunt and countering.. I repeat, RETREATING to a 40 year old. I don't see too many striker period in the world that can really put on a competitive match vs. JDS because of his size and weapon combination given the rules. It would take someone long enough with good enough striking to counter his backwards movements, but I'll say this.. Plenty of k1 guys from back in their golden Era would compete beautifully with JDS and knock him out. Just that most of you kids don't know any better. Still wet behind the ears.

Last edited by Koa; 05-28-2013 at 09:45 PM.
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Old 05-29-2013, 02:58 AM   #35
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

Haven't we also seen a fake fighting hero called Brock Lesnar becoming UFC champion?
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:29 AM   #36
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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Haven't we also seen a fake fighting hero called Brock Lesnar becoming UFC champion?
Lesnar was also a freak of nature with a NCAA Div I wrestling championship. As we have often seen, wrestling is one of the easier cross overs into mma.
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Old 05-29-2013, 07:45 AM   #37
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

Stop this talk! Stop it now! Didnt you ****ers read the OP. Am I the only one who follows the fn rules anymore

Stooooooooooooop itttttttttt!
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:05 AM   #38
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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Originally Posted by EL BULLY View Post

Reality is a good career in K1 only prepares you for MMA slightly more than a good career in boxing would. It is a factor but way overplayed imo.
Stop generalising, it's all about the weight classes. When it comes to punching, kicking and kneeing the words elite and heavyweight should only be used together in very very rare and exceptional circumstances.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:29 AM   #39
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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What's Bas excuse? MMA fighters need to humble themselves a bit and train with legit boxing pro's (ino a lot do already), that doesn't mean that they have to try on the shoulder roll like King Mo and look stupid, but just learn the fundamentals better.
Bullshit, they'd develop too many bad habits interns of unrestricted striking. You seem to not understand how just the deployment if kicks, elbows & knees make many fundamentals of the sweet science null, void and extremely dangerous to employ against a quality striker. You don't see the worlds best stand up strikers, MT guys, training with boxers do u? So why MMA guys? It's a misguided mistake. Notice GSP went to 2 MT fighters to advance his overall striking for the octagon not a couple of boxers. John Wayne Parr & Thai ATG Lamsongkram.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:33 AM   #40
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
The best techincal strikers in mma are guys like T. Spong, Pettis. Mcregor, aldo
Yodsanan 3K battery & Ramba Somdet M-16.
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Old 05-29-2013, 10:39 AM   #41
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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I think it's more of JDS being a better striker than most people gave him credit for.

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Old 05-29-2013, 11:15 AM   #42
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

Hunt is an elite striker but he is fat so he isn't fufillig his potential. He hits hard and is durable but his balance, agility, fitness etc will never be what they could be. Toney is an elite striker but hes fat and out of shape and that can sometimes affect how he looks.

You can tell Hunt is elite because of that dangerous hook he was timing. JDS knew all about it and didn't let those hands go as freely as he usually would because he knew he could get punished for stupidity. He did get caught a few times but toughed it out and adapted.

Hunt was just in there with an even better striker. JDS is one of those fighters who hasn't got the K1 or WBC title to shout about but your eyes tell you that he has some serious ability.

Hunt is out of shape, with a poor ground game but he is still exposing the level of striking in the UFC amongst tough men (who are good fighters) like Struve and Rothwell.
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Old 05-29-2013, 11:35 AM   #43
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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They both looked sloopy as shit, but Hunt looked by far the worst.

If JDS is considered to have top level of striking, then the level of boxing in MMA is really rubbish.
Just really, really poor.
This is what boxing looks like with smaller gloves. I'll guess that you find Corbett, Fitz, Langford, Ketchel, Johnson, even Dempsey and Tunney, pretty hard to watch, gawky and seemingly unskilled. I understand that too.

The problem is people expect punching in MMA to look like modern day pugilism.

First and foremost, unless you don't care at all about takedowns or leg kicks your stance will not be the same as a boxer. Even if you manage to tweak it only slightly or do as the Diaz's do and just plod forward regardless, you will either not have the opportunity to work on an aesthetically pleasing style, or will look the part and suffer for it.

If you want to watch boxing at it's best, watch boxing. It's sorta' like ridiculing a boxer for not going for the full Thai plum when they're clinching, or putting too much emphasis on the front foot and not caring to check leg kicks. They're redundant points.

Just as supposedly 'good looking' boxing in MMA.

Anyway, Pat Curran's technique is truly beautiful.
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Old 05-29-2013, 12:33 PM   #44
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

Actually no. I think it's just that JDS is just THAT good, and alot of people hold this "mystique" around K-1, thinking any Top K-1 striker has the advantage today in MMA. It just isn't true in MMA anymore. There was a time, before the game evolved, that the best strikers (most of them) had a background in kickboxing (K-1). But now everyone is going straight into MMA, strikers and grapplers. So having a K-1 background, even an elite one, means that you are a great striker. But it does not necessarily mean you are better than someone who doesn't have one.
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Old 05-30-2013, 02:26 PM   #45
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Default Re: Can we stop all this 'Elite K1 striker' BS now?

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Originally Posted by Cael View Post
They both looked sloopy as shit, but Hunt looked by far the worst.
If JDS is considered to have top level of striking, then the level of boxing in MMA is really rubbish.
Just really, really poor.
So either none of the guys who paid a good deal of money to strike can do so (and evidently all the guys they’ve KOd are horrible too) OR your comparison is wrong. Which do you think it is?
Pick your favorite boxer. Pick your most technical boxer. Even better, pick yourself. Put them in a kick boxing gym for a year and then evaluate their “boxing” technique. Then put them in an MMA gym where everytime they get taken down they get beat on or submitted and evaluate their boxing technique. Guess what will happen? You or some other genius will come along and claim that “the level of boxing in MMA is really rubbish” or some other BS.

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Originally Posted by RSBonos View Post
Is that why JDS throws a right like he is hurling a baseball into the ground? Did he perfect this technique specifically for MMA? He is after all one of the best boxers in the sport.
As for Hunt, he was always a brawler with insane toughness, his rudimentary skills are still good enough to become a top 5 MMA HW way past his prime and with very little grappling.
Some things that work in boxing don’t work in MMA and some things that work in MMA don’t work in boxing. These guys are paid to win fights, not to impress boxing fans who don’t know anything about MMA.
Chris Lytle was 13-1 as a pro boxer. Marcus Davis was 17-1. Neither guy was world class, but both obviously know boxing and had good enough technique to beat every pro they fought but one. Take a look at how they fought in MMA. Do you think they started winging shots because it didn’t work? Do you think they could have done better with more orthodox boxing techniques but decided “No, I’ll forget what I’ve learned and lose more fights because I don’t care about winning in this sport”?
Take a look at Roy Nelson’s KOs, particularly his last one. Why does he wing those shots that way? Because it WORKS. Against Kongo he landed an overhand right with the side of his hand and it still dropped Kongo. Do you think that’d work with an 8oz glove? Look at how Spencer Fisher used to win his fights; it was all about striking from weird and creative angles.
It’s a different sport people, and the way to evaluate how good someone is at an aspect of it is to watch the sport and see if they win or not. Comparing it to a totally different sport with different rules and equipment makes no sense at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RSBonos View Post
The point is JDS looks poor because his striking is poor and he is considered a top boxer under MMA rules. It has nothing to do with perfecting it for grappling.
I’ll say here what I’ve said a million times on this board: Find a way (either get a willing friend or go to an mma gym) to test whether or not takedowns and grappling change the way you punch or kick FOR YOURSELF. You don’t have to go full speed, just see how easily you can avoid or punch your “opponent” before they grab a hold of your leg or get you in a clinch. As you may have noticed from John Ruiz’s career, it’s not that easy to avoid a clinch under boxing rules. See how you adapt your technique to make it harder for your opponent to take get a hold of you. Now assume that every time he gets a hold of you, you get beaten up or get choked out. You’ll end up with a greater appreciation for mma AND boxing because you’ll understand how things got to be the way that they are.
That or you can keep being a noob who doesn’t know what they’re talking about and let the rest of us roll our eyes and your ignorant posts.
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