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Old 06-19-2013, 11:05 AM   #31
dinovelvet
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

Dempsey didn't have the legs to catch Tunney. Tyson did.

Tyson couldn't be evaded. The only thing that saw guys go the distance was durability and a solid chin.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:08 AM   #32
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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Originally Posted by Senya13 View Post
We have seen the knockdown of Tunney, Tyson unquestionably hit harder than Dempsey. Tunney's defense was only decent. His footwork has been average and running was an unusual thing for him to do, he's no Willie Pep or Cassius Clay to be able to run. He doesn't know how to hold, when in close he's punching to the body. Big mistake. And overall, he's too small, not strong or fast enough (Tyson had quicker hands). He'd lose in the 1st round in 9 out of 10 fights with prime Tyson.
OK, so when are you going to predict a first round knockout in a fight between two fighters at world level, in a contemporary fight where the prediction is actually going to be tested?

If you are not able to do this with two modern fighters, then you shouldn't be doing it in a fantasy fight between two fighters separated by 70 years.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:22 AM   #33
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

Don't know if Tunney could beat Tyson, but to say he gets blown out early is wrong. Tillis, Tucker, and Douglas frustrated him with movement and skill. There is no questioning Tunneys' heart, recuperative abilities, or skill. Tyson also showed he could be frustrated if he didn't score a quick win. It isn't a stretch to think Tunney would survive an early onslaught from Tyson and as the rounds go by, frustrate Tyson into making mistakes, and pick him apart.
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Old 06-19-2013, 11:39 AM   #34
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

Big question mark for me is this: does Tunney punch with enough authority to get Tyson's respect?
Tyson walked through Spinks and had no respect for Spinks' power whatsoever.

If Tunney cannot get that respect from Tyson, it's not going to last very long I'm afraid. And that's not intended to be a knock on Tunney at all. Capable fighters like Spinks, Tubbs and Williams didn't make it out of the first two rounds. Thomas barely did.
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:25 PM   #35
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Not necessarily.

I think that the difference between Spinks and Tunney, is that Tunney would implement a well thought out survival strategy from the opening bell.

This might be more interesting than people think.
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Greynotsoold, post #13 If Tunney hits Tyson with something early, like he did dempsey (and I think that this would be his plan), the fight becomes very different.
Tyson was a very thoughtful fighter; you can often see him stop and think. If he does that against Tunney- and a significant early blow when Tyson is coming in aggressively would cause that- he'll start getting hit with the Tunney jab. He is smart enough to slip it; Tunney is smart enough to hit him when he slips.
I don't disagree with these statements. I do think Tunney would find the best way for fighting Tyson. I'd have to pick Tyson '87-'88 over Tunney '26-'28. I think it would be closer if they came along in the same milieu --
I could see them going 2-1, not sure who the series goes to.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:10 PM   #36
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

Going by Wikipedia, Tunney had 6 inches of reach on Tyson and a couple of inches of height. Tyson certainly had the bigger body but Tunney was a tough man and would use those atributes to his advantage. Six inches of reach is a massive difference if you are fighting a guy with a great jab who can also move. If Tyson couldn't blow Tunney out early, I could see him getting very frustrated as the fight progressed. After all, Tunney did beat the Tyson of his day twice.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

Also, it should be noted that the kd vs. Dempsey was the ONLY time Tunney was ever knocked down in his career. People using that moment against him need to realise that fact.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:25 PM   #38
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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Originally Posted by Vergilius View Post
Also, it should be noted that the kd vs. Dempsey was the ONLY time Tunney was ever knocked down in his career. People using that moment against him need to realise that fact.
And people who keep repeating this and cite it as some amazing footnote in Tunney's career need to realize that Dempsey was pretty much the only person Tunney fought who was CAPABLE of doing so. Tunney fought NO big punchers in his career and the best fighters he beat were past their best. Who tested his chin?? Nobody. Picking on has-been middleweights and has-been light-heavyweights isn't going to test your chin.

Gene was one of the most careful fighters in history.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:31 PM   #39
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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Don't know if Tunney could beat Tyson, but to say he gets blown out early is wrong. Tillis, Tucker, and Douglas frustrated him with movement and skill. There is no questioning Tunneys' heart, recuperative abilities, or skill.
There is no questioning Bernard Hopkins' heart, recup or skill either. He'd still get blown out vs Tyson, wouldn't he? Tunney showed those attributes against a lot of has-been MWs, has-been LHWs and an unimpressive few small HWs of the day. Those things wouldn't be a factor against a faster, 220 pound killer like Tyson.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:34 PM   #40
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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Originally Posted by Vergilius View Post
Also, it should be noted that the kd vs. Dempsey was the ONLY time Tunney was ever knocked down in his career. People using that moment against him need to realise that fact.
(Just reread my post. Apologies if my response seemed terse. It's not meant to be)
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
There is no questioning Bernard Hopkins' heart, recup or skill either. He'd still get blown out vs Tyson, wouldn't he? Tunney showed those attributes against a lot of has-been MWs, has-been LHWs and an unimpressive few small HWs of the day. Those things wouldn't be a factor against a faster, 220 pound killer like Tyson.
Are you serious? I suppose he would. You also failed to mention Tysons fragile Psyche. Take Tyson past the mid way point of the bout and he begins to get frustrated. Tunney was well capable of doing that. This isn't an easy night for Tyson at all. He may not win, but he doesnt get blown out either.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:49 PM   #42
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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Originally Posted by Joe E View Post
Are you serious? I suppose he would. You also failed to mention Tysons fragile Psyche. Take Tyson past the mid way point of the bout and he begins to get frustrated. Tunney was well capable of doing that. This isn't an easy night for Tyson at all. He may not win, but he doesnt get blown out either.
Little Gene Tunney isn't capable of exploiting Tyson's fragile psyche any more than Hopkins is. Both are too small and not strong enough to make an impression on a charging rhino like Tyson. He would have no problem hitting either fighter. Tunney is not going to be surviving shots from a prime Mike Tyson. And Tyson WILL land them.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:49 PM   #43
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
(Just reread my post. Apologies if my response seemed terse. It's not meant to be)

No problems

Well, Tyson's sheer size of bodyframe WOULD be a problem for Tunney if you dropped the best version of either from their actual careers. However, when matching up 1920'ies fighters with modern ones, I tend to imagine that the olden fighter had had the benefit of modern training, making him bigger and strogner. I think if you put Tunney's attributes (reach, jab, footwork, toughness and speed) in a modern sized guy - that's a difficult fight for Tyson right there. Not quite the same style, but a prime Larry Holmes had some of those attributes and I believe the prime version of Larry could have caused big problems for Tyson as well.
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Old 06-19-2013, 01:51 PM   #44
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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No problems

Well, Tyson's sheer size of bodyframe WOULD be a problem for Tunney if you dropped the best version of either from their actual careers. However, when matching up 1920'ies fighters with modern ones, I tend to imagine that the olden fighter had had the benefit of modern training, making him bigger and strogner. I think if you put Tunney's attributes (reach, jab, footwork, toughness and speed) in a modern sized guy - that's a difficult fight for Tyson right there. Not quite the same style, but a prime Larry Holmes had some of those attributes and I believe the prime version of Larry could have caused big problems for Tyson as well.
Coming from that angle, you may have a case.
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Old 06-19-2013, 02:01 PM   #45
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Default Re: Mike Tyson v Gene Tunney

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Originally Posted by Surf-Bat View Post
Coming from that angle, you may have a case.
Mind you, I'm not saying Tyson wouldn't win - just that it could be an interesting fight to Watch
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