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Old 12-14-2013, 01:49 PM   #1756
Seamus
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

and oh, c o c k, c o c k, c o c k....
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:52 PM   #1757
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Foxy 01 View Post
Lets see EXACTLY who these bugs and earwigs were that were beaten by Marciano, and weighed 240+, stood 6'6" with an 81" reach.
I suspect they were the kind of shit that either Klitchko would only use to carry their spit buckets.
Eras! Eras! get a grip Fox!
A 1952 Wlad would have been a 215-220 pounder, 6'6" with the reach and a much leaner body that could have been pounded.
A 2000 Rocky would have been 200+ lbs. and much more conducive to modern boxing.
A 52 Rock vs. a 00 Wlad? Your boy wins, point given.
Screw these mythical matchups. You simply have to consider the era, the training, the size, the fights per year (you want to put a 2000 Sugar Ray Robinson against the turn of the century's best?) They'de get their asses handed to them in spades by the greatest fighter of ALL time!
I said I wouldn't comment anymore on these 'era' matchuups but here I go again.
Ray Robinson is the greatest fighter that has ever lived!
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:35 PM   #1758
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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and oh, c o c k, c o c k, c o c k....
Balls. And balls.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:38 PM   #1759
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Plus 1952 Wlad may be shorter; 2000s Rocky may be taller.

The prototypical heavyweight back then was maybe 6' now its 6'5".

In that case the Rock wins easy. Wlad's chin has always been suspect.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:11 PM   #1760
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by jowcol View Post
Eras! Eras! get a grip Fox!
A 1952 Wlad would have been a 215-220 pounder, 6'6" with the reach and a much leaner body that could have been pounded.
A 2000 Rocky would have been 200+ lbs. and much more conducive to modern boxing.
A 52 Rock vs. a 00 Wlad? Your boy wins, point given.
Screw these mythical matchups. You simply have to consider the era, the training, the size, the fights per year (you want to put a 2000 Sugar Ray Robinson against the turn of the century's best?) They'de get their asses handed to them in spades by the greatest fighter of ALL time!
I said I wouldn't comment anymore on these 'era' matchuups but here I go again.
Ray Robinson is the greatest fighter that has ever lived!

very true, a lot of speculation in these match-ups and impossible to go back in time and if you did you would have to take the loss of size and if you moved forward you would have to add the gain in size...all we can do is take the greatest of their eras and if they fought the best and won we can say they were the best of there time and compare styles. Once we start calculating size into these match-ups in the growing heavyweight division after 60 years of expansion it becomes hard without having to add or subtract for era...the other divisions are easy because the weight stays the same.....but I agree Ray Robinson was the greatest all-around fighter that ever lived I think he was like 134-1-1 prior to the 1st Turpin fight and his record was DEEP
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:54 AM   #1761
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

I'm not remotely interested in speculation regarding what such, and such a fighter would have weighed in different era's. In the 30's there WAS a 6' 5"" 250lb Heavyweight, just as Marciano fanboy types will tell you how he beat 6' plus over 200lb fighters.

Klitchko is what he is, and Marciano was what he was, end of. Klitchko by brutality.

Let me say here and now David Haye is at best an ordinary fighter, but he has the power and hand speed to turn Marciano into a Pizza faced victim of a multi knockdown stoppage inside 6 rounds.

If you want to use your SRR analogy, you might as well say that if he was around from the fab 4 era until today, he would have had to fight one handed to give the others a chance, if you are trying to bring in spurious comparisons of diet and conditioning.

I am quite happy to believe that the Robinson we see on film beats any Middleweight since his own time, and comfortably. I'm not interested in any what if's or modern methods.

Conversely I'm not interested in any Klitchko would only have weighed, blah, blah, blah in the 50's, or Marciano would have weighed 200+ in the 00's. No one KNOWS that to be a fact.

What we do know is Marciano would only have been 5' 10" with a 67 inch reach in any era, just as we know Vlad K would have been 6' 6" with an 81 inch reach.

From that starting point you have to take into account what Marciano fought that comes close, and I am saying categorically there was no one with the ability of Klitchko.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:57 AM   #1762
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Foxy 01 View Post
I'm not remotely interested in speculation regarding what such, and such a fighter would have weighed in different era's. In the 30's there WAS a 6' 5"" 250lb Heavyweight, just as Marciano fanboy types will tell you how he beat 6' plus over 200lb fighters.

Klitchko is what he is, and Marciano was what he was, end of. Klitchko by brutality.

Let me say here and now David Haye is at best an ordinary fighter, but he has the power and hand speed to turn Marciano into a Pizza faced victim of a multi knockdown stoppage inside 6 rounds.

If you want to use your SRR analogy, you might as well say that if he was around from the fab 4 era until today, he would have had to fight one handed to give the others a chance, if you are trying to bring in spurious comparisons of diet and conditioning.

I am quite happy to believe that the Robinson we see on film beats any Middleweight since his own time, and comfortably. I'm not interested in any what if's or modern methods.

Conversely I'm not interested in any Klitchko would only have weighed, blah, blah, blah in the 50's, or Marciano would have weighed 200+ in the 00's. No one KNOWS that to be a fact.

What we do know is Marciano would only have been 5' 10" with a 67 inch reach in any era, just as we know Vlad K would have been 6' 6" with an 81 inch reach.

From that starting point you have to take into account what Marciano fought that comes close, and I am saying categorically there was no one with the ability of Klitchko.

David Haye who was KO'd by Carl Thompson and had the toe injury vs Vlad would destroy Marciano, knock him down multiple times and chop him up, Sorry but I dont see him getting past, Moore,Walcott,Charles or others of that era so for me you lost all creditability with that statement

and while your at it did you know Marciano was really only 5"4 and his reach was really 57 inches...just about anyone would beat him I can only imagine what Carl Thompson would do to him....
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:23 AM   #1763
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

There is no low to which Marcianophiles will stoop in order the buttress their flimsy argument of his heavyweight dominance. Need a hypothetical opponent shunk in size? No problem. And while were at it, let's claim that Marciano could operate in his style with an added 20 pounds on his endomorphic frame.
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:46 AM   #1764
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Eddie Chambers and Haye take a brutal leathering off the Rock before a mid round stoppage , yeah?
Both take Wlad the 12 round, but Wlad is able to destroy Rock in minutes ? No.
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Old 12-18-2013, 06:55 PM   #1765
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

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Originally Posted by Foxy 01 View Post
I'm not remotely interested in speculation.
Backed up by history, training, etc?
Not to mention fight after fight after fight back in the day?
IMO you've proven my point, and others that may agree with me, with your lame response.
What really clinched your nonsense with me was your statement that I think Ray Robinson could easily beat any of the 'moderns' with one hand tied behind his back.
There is no 'speculation' on questioning the validity of comparing different era fighters. Maybe you should go post in the 'Modern' forum, it might better fit your 'insights'.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:31 PM   #1766
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

You don't change the physical dimensions of fighters to make a comparison unless you're doing a P4P analysis. In a head-to-head-who-beats-whom? comparison, the size is the size.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:45 PM   #1767
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

For the benefit of moronic Marciano fanboys.

There is NOTHING that I have seen of Marciano in his fights that makes me believe that any, and every decent world Heavyweight champion from Liston up until the present time ( INCLUDING THE EXTREMELY ORDINARY DAVID HAYE ) couldn't handle him with consummate ease.

Similarly, and again for the MORONS.

Nothing I have seen from Downes, through Monzon, Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, Jones, Toney, Hopkins, up until todays bunch of 160 pounders, makes me believe that Robinson couldn't, or wouldn't beat all of them with consummate ease.

And I am talking about the Robinson from HIS era fighting any time from the 70's until NOW. Given the modern methods of diet, nutrition, conditioning, sports science, blah, blah, blah, he would need to be handicapped to allow those inferior tossers to gain half a chance of beating him.


As Eddie Futch said when he was just a bit short of 90.

" Ray Robinson did things in a ring I've never seen before or since. "
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:48 PM   #1768
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

But Futch thought Burley was an all-around greater fighter.
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:16 PM   #1769
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

He did, thats true, but as far as I'm aware he didn't say either would definitely beat the other in a h2h.

Also I'm almost certain he didn't pick any of the post 60's Middles to beat SRR.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:51 PM   #1770
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko vs. Rocky Marciano

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxy 01 View Post
For the benefit of moronic Marciano fanboys.
Similarly, and again for the MORONS.

Nothing I have seen from Downes, through Monzon, Hagler, Leonard, Hearns, Jones, Toney, Hopkins, up until todays bunch of 160 pounders, makes me believe that Robinson couldn't, or wouldn't beat all of them with consummate ease.

And I am talking about the Robinson from HIS era fighting any time from the 70's until NOW. Given the modern methods of diet, nutrition, conditioning, sports science, blah, blah, blah, he would need to be handicapped to allow those inferior tossers to gain half a chance of beating him.
Greetings Foxy, thanks for the SRR tribute. Good to know that you and a host of others recognize Ray's legacy. Gee, based on your tribute he would have had to have had one hand tied behind his back to lose.
Not to mention the 'era' difference.
Your "moron" references to Rocky fans is an insulting attack and totally unwarranted.
As I said, a 2002 Wlad vs. a 1952 Marciano? A beatdown, I gave you that.
But as I, and others, have asked.
A Wlad born in the 20's vs. a Rock born in the 60's yields a different fighter and, perhaps, a different result in a mythical matchup.
I simply don't understand why you call any discussion on this as mere "speculation"?
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