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Old 12-31-2013, 07:34 AM   #1
BlackCloud
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Default Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

Just sitting here thinking how history could be changed if a single result had gone the other way.

Say if Hamed had beaten Barrera then retired, how differently would you rate him ?

Say Joe had won the Thrilla in Manilla ?

RJJ retiring after the first Tarver bout ?

Joe Louis not rematching Schmelling ?

That's just 4 off the top of my head that would make a huge difference to how i rate any of the above fighters.

Yeah, i know, if my grandmother had balls etc hehe.
Just after examples to match the above.

Who / What else you got ?
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:51 AM   #2
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

Calzaghe losing to either B-HOP or RJJ would of seriously damaged his legacy imo.

If Hatton could of beat Floyd or Pacman he would of been a surefire HOF and certainly one of the best british fighters of all time

Vitali not getting stopped on cuts against Lewis and going on to probably win the fight would of cemented his place and really passed the torch for alot of people... His defining fight was a loss.

Last edited by StGeorge; 01-01-2014 at 01:10 PM.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:06 AM   #3
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

Billy Conn staying out of harms way for the last 2 rounds would have made a massive difference to both fighters rating.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:10 AM   #4
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

RJJ retiring after the Ruiz fight would have made him a top 10 ATG, IMO.
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Old 12-31-2013, 08:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

could go on for days here. but one fight that i recall from my early high school days being the biggest thing i'd ever seen only to leave many questions and for some reason NO rematch was

odlh/tito

a rematch could have answered a lot of questions and reshaped a lot.
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Old 12-31-2013, 11:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

You could go on for days. Most fighters dont know had bad they have deteriorated until well after its happened, therefore it really takes a knowledgeable fan to distinguish different points in careers. It could even go as far as a turning point in a career. Look how Hopkins had a turning point in his early career? Evander Holyfield was considered shot to pieces after the Czyz fight, yet his legacy is most set on the Tyson fight.
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Old 12-31-2013, 12:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackCloud View Post
Billy Conn staying out of harms way for the last 2 rounds would have made a massive difference to both fighters rating.

This.
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Old 12-31-2013, 01:06 PM   #8
fists of fury
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

Some very good picks so far...I like the Conn one especially.

What if Gomez had beaten Sanchez?

What if Azumah Nelson had beaten Whitaker, or Meldrick Taylor has beaten Chavez?
If Napoles had beaten Monzon?
What If Douglas had beaten Holyfield? Or if Big George beat Ali? Or Henry Cooper had? Or Duran had beaten Hagler?
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:02 PM   #9
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

What if Cuevas had knocked out Hearns?

What if Tate had decisioned Weaver?

What if Curry had beaten Honeyghan?

What if Hagler had beaten Leonard?

What if Arguello had beaten Pryor?

What if Chandler had beaten Sandoval?
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Old 12-31-2013, 05:59 PM   #10
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury View Post
Some very good picks so far...I like the Conn one especially.

What if Gomez had beaten Sanchez?

What if Azumah Nelson had beaten Whitaker, or Meldrick Taylor has beaten Chavez?
If Napoles had beaten Monzon?
What If Douglas had beaten Holyfield? Or if Big George beat Ali? Or Henry Cooper had? Or Duran had beaten Hagler?
If foreman would of beat Ali he would of gone on to DOMINATE the division and be considered an ATG imo, Ali would of been considered 'shot' so I dont think it hurts him very much tbh,
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Old 01-01-2014, 12:46 AM   #11
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

(1) Instead of Bowe tossing the belt in the trash can, he had instead fought Lewis.

(2) Conn boxing Louis in the 13th, instead of going for the KO.

(3) Vitali finishing the Byrd fight while well ahead, instead of saying 'No Mas'.

(4) What if Bert Cooper had knocked out Holyfield and Moorer, when he had them down and in trouble in their title fights.
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Old 01-01-2014, 02:52 AM   #12
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

If Morales had retired after Pac 1 his legacy would be radically different. He looked so dreadful against Raheem, Pac II and III, Garcia.

Tate-Weaver is a HUGE one. Big John was building toward being a major, major threat to Holmes. If he'd finished that one, and then beaten a few guys like Cooney, Shavers, Witherspoon he would have been impossible for Holmes to avoid.

Michael Spinks' legacy is really hurt by the Tyson fight, and Leon's career was derailed by Coetzee. He went from briefly being world class to being a joke.

And Oscar De La Hoya ended James Leija's time as an elite fighter, though he was still very good.
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Old 01-01-2014, 04:09 AM   #13
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

what would have happened if Mugabi had stopped Hagler in say the 7th or 8th round? a rematch or was Marvin going to retire? Does Leonard come out of retirement for that guy? How about Hearns? Mike McCallum? or does Nunn come out of the up and comers rise to the top?
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

if Tyson had beat Holyfield in 96, it wouldn't affect either ones legacy.

people would say well Holyfield was old etc etc. Tyson gets no credit for beating Holmes, id doubt hes get any beating Holyfield.

even in 91 had Tyson beaten Holy, he would have received very little credit because Holyfield was lightly regarded.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:13 AM   #15
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Default Re: Single fights that can define a legacy or lessen it

well....its the reason fights have a distance on them....12, 10, 8 rounds or whatever....there's loads of examples of boxers who nearly won but got beat near the end...that billy conn example above.

saying that.....there is one result that stands out by a mile for me and i think fits this thread perfectly.....a very boring dull fight, but a fight where, for me, the wrong man got the nod, and the loser could have won so much legacy wise (in my eyes)..

bear with me here... valuev v holyfield...

i think for what it would have meant to holyfields career on paper, his legacy, the amazing achievement of winning a heavyweight title yet again to become a 5-time heavyweight champion (and former undisputed cruiser champion) and becoming oldest champ ever, an amazing 22 year gap between world titles and cementing his place in boxing history (even more) and folklore and allow him to go out on a dream fairytale ending which would have been spoke about probably forever in the sport.
i think for all of the above and what it would have meant to this history of the sport on paper...even if it was a poor fight..even if neither boxer did much...holyfield did that little bit more and should have won...there's been bigger robberies as far as looking at it from just the fight are concerned...but from a legacy point of view...i felt sorry for him.
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