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Old 01-01-2014, 04:41 PM   #31
BeerGut
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by withoutwire View Post
Link?
Would you like me to rub your belly as well?

You go to youtube and type in Sugar Ray Robinson and someone like Bernard Docusen, Charlie Fusari, Cliff Beckett, Sammy Angott (there are others)

There are even clips from when he was amateur.
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Old 01-01-2014, 05:45 PM   #32
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[quote=spinner;15921374]I'll send you a PM with more specific details re my dad. And yes, I do remember a couple of boxing clubs in ENY - one on Georgia Ave & Livonia, another on Pitkin near Rockaway, and there was a PAL amateur club but I forget where it was. Lots of churches also staged amateur bouts such as one on Smith & 9th Street. Can't remember the name off hand.

Remember the Prospect Hall arena? I remember watching Manuel Melon box there - we used to call him the Coca Cola man (he worked as a bottle and crate handler for them). It was later turned into a restaurant because the real estate taxes were so high.

Im 95 percent sure i saw this fight. Do you recall the main event??
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:05 AM   #33
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

[quote=SLAKKA;15922620]
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I'll send you a PM with more specific details re my dad. And yes, I do remember a couple of boxing clubs in ENY - one on Georgia Ave & Livonia, another on Pitkin near Rockaway, and there was a PAL amateur club but I forget where it was. Lots of churches also staged amateur bouts such as one on Smith & 9th Street. Can't remember the name off hand.

Remember the Prospect Hall arena? I remember watching Manuel Melon box there - we used to call him the Coca Cola man (he worked as a bottle and crate handler for them). It was later turned into a restaurant because the real estate taxes were so high.

Im 95 percent sure i saw this fight. Do you recall the main event??

May 1981

Manuel was a co-worker of a friend of mine with whom I played paddle ball on East 4th Street park in Windsor Terrace. He fought against "Black Widow" Milton Owens of Florida who had a respectable record in his fighting days. I believe Milton's manager-trainer was "Big Cat" Pitts but don't recall for certain. We had a full house that night and, as was usual for me, I bought the beer for the guys I was with. Had you been there, you would have had a free bottle on me!
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Old 01-02-2014, 12:40 AM   #34
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Thank you spinner !!
You're a big hearted guy!
Im looking over the card on boxrec and will repeat im 95 percent sure i was there.
Im 100 percent sure I saw your buddy vs Bobby Czyz at Ice world Totowa NJ the following year.
I can still hear Lou Duva screaming at Bobby...The body...The body..when he had you bud in trouble. That fight ended early and i hope Manual is ok these days??
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:09 PM   #35
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

That fight was the end for Manuel's pro boxing days. He just wasn't ready for world class fighters like Czyz and did not have a Duva, a Paddy Flood, or an Al Certo in his corner. I honestly feel that with better training and management he could have gone further in his pro career and ultimately have reached the top 20 (maybe even higher). But it wasn't to be for the genuinely humble guy from NY.

I move out of Brooklyn a few years later and lost touch with the old pals so I don't know how they are doing today. I wish them (and you) the best.
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Old 01-02-2014, 01:19 PM   #36
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

If I recall correctly from past readings the designation "best P4P" was invented because of SRR and it was during his career. Therefore, in answer to the OP I would say his great reputation did not come after his career was over but during his boxing days.

While he got many accolades, my favorite remains Bert Sugar's words: "Robinson could deliver a knockout blow going backward".
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:33 PM   #37
burt bienstock
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by spinner View Post
If I recall correctly from past readings the designation "best P4P" was invented because of SRR and it was during his career. Therefore, in answer to the OP I would say his great reputation did not come after his career was over but during his boxing days.

While he got many accolades, my favorite remains Bert Sugar's words: "Robinson could deliver a knockout blow going backward".
Cool, but my favorite description was of Harry Greb.One observer said
after watching Greb fight, " he reminds me of a man, who just burst out
of his straightjacket "...
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:46 PM   #38
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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This is interesting and, if true, would have been written by Dan Daniel in all likelihood, one of the few writers with his finger on the pulse, and certainly not Fleisher or Jersey Jones. Nat was so annoyed that Robinson was voted best middleweight ever in a 60s poll, he then ran this cover...

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


...great controversy?
It's in a collection of classic ring articles. I'll check it out later, to see who wrote it.
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:51 PM   #39
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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That fight was the end for Manuel's pro boxing days. He just wasn't ready for world class fighters like Czyz and did not have a Duva, a Paddy Flood, or an Al Certo in his corner. I honestly feel that with better training and management he could have gone further in his pro career and ultimately have reached the top 20 (maybe even higher). But it wasn't to be for the genuinely humble guy from NY.

I move out of Brooklyn a few years later and lost touch with the old pals so I don't know how they are doing today. I wish them (and you) the best.
Goodbye Brooklyn boys!
Lets stop now spinner or im gonna be ballin worse than Sammy Davis Jr
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Old 01-03-2014, 08:35 AM   #40
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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No t, I never saw Ezzard Charles nor Lloyd Marshall fight......I consider
Ezzard Charles an alltime great MW and LH....Better P4P than Clay/Ali
as a fighter without the hype or glitz. McAvoy was a terrific MW,and so was
Scotlands Tommy Milligan until he ran into the tough Toy Bulldog Mickey
Walker in 1927....
cheers burt I also rate Charles highly at those weights and indeed number one at 175lb.
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Old 01-05-2014, 05:58 PM   #41
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Default Re: Sugar Ray Robinson

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I was at that fight when a badly cut Ray Robinson, fearing that the referee
might stop the fight, exploded on Turpin in a do or die flurry ....Many of those punches missed Randy's chin, but that right hand hurt Turpin badly...
Turpin showed great courage to remain on his feet, but the ref had to stop the bout. We in the crowd were screaming on our feet at the finish....My buddy and I had great seats sitting about 10 rows behind Gen. Douglas
MacArthur ,and I recall vividly that Ray Robinson was literally "carried" by his entourage past our row to the dressing room. I remember his exhausted face til this day....
The way Robinson set Turpin up that night was a thing of beauty. Dipping low almost mimicking Turpin's style and throwing right hands to the body. He set the table early and when he needed it he caught Randy with a right cross to the head. That was a right before the one that dropped Turpin that started the ball rolling.
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