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Old 07-16-2007, 11:46 PM   #106
UpWithEvil
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Default Re: Primo Carnera

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I don't know about that, UWE, as some of the prefight quotes in the immediate days leading up to the fight from Baer's own people (and others) might suggest that he wasn't nearly in the best of shape entering ther Carnera fight, although by his physical appearance he may have looked the part;
By his physical appearance he certainly did:

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The Modesto Bee and News Herald ran an article on June 9th, just a week before the title bout against Carnera, which stated, "New York Physicians Report California Heavyweight In Better Shape Than When He Knocked Out Max Schmeling"

Specifically addressing the charges of New York Commissioner Bill Brown you cited above, I present an excerpt from the June 8, 1934 "Fresno Bee" : "NEW YORK Doctors and two boxing commissioners voted down Commissioner Brown here today and the battle between MAX BAER, the playboy, and Primo Camera, the man mountain, is officially on as per scheduled for Thursday night. Baer, whose physical condition was thought by Brown to be below necessary requirements, was pronounced in "splendid condition"."

Baer never trained serious enough for Jack Dempsey, that much is a given.
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Old 07-17-2007, 02:13 AM   #107
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Default Re: Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by UpWithEvil
Baer, whose physical condition was thought by Brown to be below necessary requirements, was pronounced in "splendid condition"."
Thanks for the response, UWE, and here's the official report given to the commision from Doctors Nardiello, Beyer, and (I forget the other one, but it may have been a Dr. Walker);

"Our opinion on both these fighters, which we have reached unanimously, is that both are in splendid physical condition, and we fully believe that they are physically able to engage in this contest of fifteen rounds of boxing. From every test we are able to make, we fail to find any reason why either one of them should not be allowed to box on June 14, 1934."

"Although I do not mean to show any disrespect to the medical profession, you can't convince me that Baer is in shape." - was Bill Brown's reaction to the physicians' findings, and printed in the June 9, 1934 New York Times.

Like I said in that earlier post though, UWE, I was only trying to hint at the possibilty of Baer not being in the best of shape for the Carnera fight by using quotes from those around him during camp, but, while this is quite the extreme in examples and not meant as a comparision of the two fighters because of obvious differences, if only going by physical appearance of the fighter and Dr Romero's claim that he was in "excellant, excellant physical condition" and that any stories about him having brain damage being "bunk", couldn't one say that Ali was in magnificent shape for the Holmes fight if only going by the prefight appearance of him and coupled that with a doctor's prefight findings?
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:31 AM   #108
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Default Re: Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Sam Dixon
I don't know about that, UWE, as some of the prefight quotes in the immediate days leading up to the fight from Baer's own people (and others) might suggest that he wasn't nearly in the best of shape entering ther Carnera fight, although by his physical appearance he may have looked the part;
There are a couple of posibilities here-

A.
It might have been that Baer did have trouble motivationg himself to train as the sources you quote suggest but that a 90% Baer was still too much for Carnera.

B.
It might have been spoiling tactics on the part of Baer's camp, trying to make Carnera look past Baer.

C.
It might just all have been relative.
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:45 AM   #109
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Default Re: Primo Carnera

I don't really understand what this Comissioner Brown's big problem is. So Baer comes into the fight in less than top shape. This would mean he is more likely to lose. Why does Brown care so much? Isn't this Baer's problem? Or is Brown worried that Carnera would injure Baer? That is the only interpretation which makes much sense. Brown is afraid Baer will get killed and this will reflect badly on boxing.
This seems to indicate Brown considered Carnera very dangerous.
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Old 07-17-2007, 05:36 AM   #110
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Old 07-17-2007, 05:57 PM   #111
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Is that what Jack Sharkey did after he was counted out?
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Old 07-17-2007, 06:00 PM   #112
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But what is Brown's motive? So Baer comes in out of shape. Why should a boxing official cause a big stink about that? unless he in fact is worried that Baer will be hurt.
Provide another motive. I'm all ears.
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:28 PM   #113
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Default Re: Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY
But what is Brown's motive? So Baer comes in out of shape. Why should a boxing official cause a big stink about that? unless he in fact is worried that Baer will be hurt.
Provide another motive. I'm all ears.
Brown called Carnera a bum,no way was he worried about Baers health in this fight ,neither was Maxie concerned,whilst filming "The Prize Fighter And The lady ,"Baer established a mental dominance over Carnera ,playing gags on him ,such as giving himthe "hot foot"etc,he toldhis manager "I can lick this bum easy"Baer might have been frightened by Louis but Carnera didnt make him lose any sleep,Baer even wore the robe he he had worn in the film when he came into the ring to challenge Carnera for real.Watch the film of the fight you can see Steve Morgan ,his characters name on the back of it. Trotting out photos of Baer intraining as though to show he was trained to the minute for Carnera make me laugh,have you ever seen a picture of Baer looking fat when he was in his prime?For the record Baer weighed 209 1/2 lbs when he fought Carnera,the same weight he scaled when he lost his title to Braddock,a fight he definitely trained only halfheartedly for.Baer was a less than diligent gym worker at the best of times ,and though his drinking was exaggeratedhis late night carousing with the ladies was not,cant we leave Primo in peace now? Some on here have one view of him some another ,both sides will never agree ,maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:42 PM   #114
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Default Re: Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by Street Lethal
Carnera being in a position to fight for the title is the result of many arrangements.
boxing history is filled with guys who may or may not deserve shots at the title. the current state of the game is saturated with undeserving challengers, but the difference is that when given the chance, carnera, along with a handful of modern titleholders* came through when it counted.

*see botha, maskaev, rahman, valuev, spinks-leon and michael, etc etc etc
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Old 07-17-2007, 07:54 PM   #115
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Default Re: Primo Carnera

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Originally Posted by mcvey
Brown called Carnera a bum,no way was he worried about Baers health in this fight ,neither was Maxie concerned,whilst filming "The Prize Fighter And The lady ,"Baer established a mental dominance over Carnera ,playing gags on him ,such as giving himthe "hot foot"etc,he toldhis manager "I can lick this bum easy"Baer might have been frightened by Louis but Carnera didnt make him lose any sleep,Baer even wore the robe he he had worn in the film when he came into the ring to challenge Carnera for real.Watch the film of the fight you can see Steve Morgan ,his characters name on the back of it. Trotting out photos of Baer intraining as though to show he was trained to the minute for Carnera make me laugh,have you ever seen a picture of Baer looking fat when he was in his prime?For the record Baer weighed 209 1/2 lbs when he fought Carnera,the same weight he scaled when he lost his title to Braddock,a fight he definitely trained only halfheartedly for.Baer was a less than diligent gym worker at the best of times ,and though his drinking was exaggeratedhis late night carousing with the ladies was not,cant we leave Primo in peace now? Some on here have one view of him some another ,both sides will never agree ,maybe the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Others brought this Brown guy up, but I don't see an answer to the question I posed. Why does a boxing official care if Baer comes into a fight in less than top shape?

I know that Brown called Baer a bum also, but said Carnera was a bigger bum. I would just like to know if anyone knows his motivation for dwelling on Baer's conditioning, which doesn't seem to be his job.

Baer weighed 210 for Louis, a fight I have read he trained very hard for.
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