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Old 06-10-2014, 12:49 AM   #46
SuzieQ49
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Originally Posted by Fan Man View Post
Possibly he had better punching technique than Foreman but he had not the speed or the power that Foreman did to back up his deliveries.

I will concede that he was technically more skilled than Foreman but that is not saying much.
Liston of 58-59 was faster than Foreman. Watch his fight vs Wayne Bethea.

Also Liston beat very good fighters like Zora Folley and Eddie Machen. He had a lot more to his resume than just Patterson.
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Old 06-10-2014, 09:38 AM   #47
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Liston of 58-59 was faster than Foreman. Watch his fight vs Wayne Bethea.

Also Liston beat very good fighters like Zora Folley and Eddie Machen. He had a lot more to his resume than just Patterson.
Martha's Vineyard eh? I vacationed there a few times myself back in the day. Been about 15 years since I've been out that way. Naval duty?
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:23 PM   #48
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Martha's Vineyard eh? I vacationed there a few times myself back in the day. Been about 15 years since I've been out that way. Naval duty?
Really? That's sweet. Which was your favorite town? I am a police officer here.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:08 PM   #49
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Really? That's sweet. Which was your favorite town? I am a police officer here.
No kidding? That's crazy. You went from living in Boston to being in the Navy and now a cop in the Vineyard. You must have some serious stories to tell my friend. I'm pretty sure we stayed in Edgartown and also spent some time in Oakbluffs and Vineyard haven. Stayed in some cottages that we rented called the Fleager apartments or something. The two times I went were between 1997-1999. Saw Bill Clinton there one summer, and was up late at night pounding beers at a local pub when Princess Diana's death was reported all over the news. Did some deep sea fishing, but caught mostly sea bass and blue fins. Good food. Do you live there year round? **** if I ever take my wife there we have to meet.
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:20 PM   #50
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Back to Floyd.
Maxim? I've always found it interesting that a still strong Maxim, with plenty of fuel left in his tank, would do an 8-rounder against an up and coming contender?
Maybe the 'ol white mongoose' outsmarted young Floyd that night, but ringside commentators thought otherwise. (can never find a complete version of their scrap)
INGO? Floyd got caught and kept rising! Screw the 'china-chin' nonsense.
Almost killed INGO in the rematch.
Sonny was simply too big and too much, and Sonny said he NEVER hit anyone harder than he hit Floyd, and...Floyd was getting to his feet in both fights...no out like a light, 8-9-10 yer' out!
Ali 1? Could have never beaten Ali but his back issue is a matter of record.
Both Quarry's? China chin?? Two KD's in the second round, the second a SUNDAY right hand by Quarry right on the money! Floyd rises, survives the round, and then hands Quarry a one-sided ass whoopin' until the 9th and 10th rounds when he goes 'cigar store Indian' and let's Quarry salvage a draw.
Their second fight? IMO boring with no big time action. Quarry scores two knockdowns (2nd & 4th) that has Floyd with nothing more than an embarrassed look on his face. (why didn't he unleash more combos in his career? He was clearly the fastest HW)
Ellis? After 30 or so viewings (due to Floyd's passivity) I could accept a draw (I know, you have to take the fight to the champ) but look at both of them after the decision (Floyd unmarked, Ellis a broken nose, both eyes closing bloody mess)
Ali 2: Again Floyd wanted a second crack (at 37, almost 38!) He gave Muhammad major trouble. One judge had it 3-3 after six. Thanks to Devil Green's head butt in Sept. 70 that gashed Floyd's eye, IMO that fight may well have gone deep (Floyd wasn't going to win, but he could well have lost a pretty close decision.
Well....there you have it, All of Patterson's losses.
A true HOF'er! RIP Champ.
And...as the thread mentions, look at his almost 20 year run of being ranked in the top 10 heavies.
Fantastic post!
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Old 06-11-2014, 03:42 PM   #51
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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I think very little of Sonny Liston as I have wrote elsewhere. He is devoid of any real skills, just big. Having said that there's no point at which Patterson could have avenged against Liston, he was a different breed of animal to Floyd.

It's sad that Floyd is Sonny's best win really.
Rather than talking about Liston, you should read the original post of this thread.

That will at least tell you why I regard Floyd Patterson more highly than you do.

If you decide that there is something in what I say, then presumably Liston’s stock rises.
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Old 07-01-2014, 08:08 PM   #52
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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No kidding? That's crazy. You went from living in Boston to being in the Navy and now a cop in the Vineyard. You must have some serious stories to tell my friend. I'm pretty sure we stayed in Edgartown and also spent some time in Oakbluffs and Vineyard haven. Stayed in some cottages that we rented called the Fleager apartments or something. The two times I went were between 1997-1999. Saw Bill Clinton there one summer, and was up late at night pounding beers at a local pub when Princess Diana's death was reported all over the news. Did some deep sea fishing, but caught mostly sea bass and blue fins. Good food. Do you live there year round? **** if I ever take my wife there we have to meet.
Magoo,

Sorry, just getting this message now. I wish some of the stories I have are more adventurous! I am here year round. We should definitely meet up!! I would love to grab a drink and meet your wife, talk some boxing. Definitely let me know if you come for a visit. We have great seafood out here. Obama comes up once a summer.
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:50 AM   #53
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Magoo,

Sorry, just getting this message now. I wish some of the stories I have are more adventurous! I am here year round. We should definitely meet up!! I would love to grab a drink and meet your wife, talk some boxing. Definitely let me know if you come for a visit. We have great seafood out here. Obama comes up once a summer.

If we plan a trip there sometime soon or in the next year or so I'll PM you.
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Old 07-03-2014, 05:32 PM   #54
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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Patterson's avoidance of top challengers while he was champion, ruins his legacy for me.
That wasn't his fault.
Let's look at the 'Big 3' in the late 50's.
Machen? Styles make fights and NO WAY a 50's Machen stops Floyd.
Eddie was a 'stick and mover'. Outside of Ali, what 'stick and mover' ever beat Floyd? OK, a slick Maxim against a teenager? (which many dispute)
Tho Eddie was on the downside (after two beatdowns by Sonny couldn't you say the same of Floyd?) Patterson whooped his ass in Sweden in 7/64. 9-2-1, 10-2, 9-1-2?
Folley? OK, we're talking a little more punching power here but does anyone see Zora walking thru Floyd? I don't! Would have been a good scrap tho, I'll concede that, maybe even a GREAT fight. Folley didn't walk thru everyone (Cooper 58?)
Williams? A lot of his rep is predicated on that 1st round in his initial scrap with Sonny. Repeat: Styles make fights and...Cat's career was full of less than great efforts.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:46 AM   #55
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson’s incredible run of world class form

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I often think that Floyd Patterson gets a little bit under rated, because he was too big to stay at light heavyweight for a long time, but too small to dominate at heavyweight.

When we look beyond the dominant champions, a key diagnostic for finding the strongest fighters, is ability to remain ranked in the top ten over a number of years. In reality, most contenders and indeed most of the weaker champions, do not manage to hold a top ten ranking for very long. I think that I am right in saying that Floyd Patterson was ranked in the top 10 for more years than any other fighter, and that his record will probably never be surpassed.

Light Heavyweight

1953 7
1954 4
1955 1

Heavyweights

1956 Champion
1957 Champion
1958 Champion
1959 2
1960 Champion
1961 Champion
1962 1
1963 7
1964 2
1965 2
1966 4
1967 7
1968 10
1969 Unranked
1970 Unranked#
1971 7
1972 5

Conclusions
Between 1953 and 1972 there were only two years where Floyd Patterson was not ranked in the top 10 by Ring Magazine. He has an unbroken streak of 15 years ranked in the top 10. This is an incredible 19 years over which he was consistently operating at the elite level.

He entered the heavyweight rankings when Rocky Marciano was champion, and bowed out of them under the title reign of Joe Frazier. This is a remarkable accomplishment given that he was a small heavyweight with an offensive style, fighting in an era of dreadnoughts.

Perhaps he deserves some sort of pound for pound recognition?
agreed 100%, and i think that patterson would have been one of the greatest cruisers of all time, he is underrated absolutely, i think that he was better than ken norton
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