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Old 06-11-2014, 12:15 PM   #16
Stevie G
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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Foreman would have knocked Ali out if he wasn't poisoned by Sadler. Sadler was in cahoots with Ali's team. Right after Foreman fired Sadler he went straight to work for Ali. When Foreman wanted a rematch Ali demanded that Sadler work his corner so he could poison him again.

I like Ali but he was very afraid of Foreman and resorted in underhand tactics to ensure a victory. Looses ropes, poison, bad hotel food...Ali did it all to screw Foreman out of his title.

Can you source the "Ali wanted Sadler back" thing ? I've never heard this before. Probably more conspiracy theory bullshit,but I like to think that I've an open mind.
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Old 06-11-2014, 12:54 PM   #17
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

Foreman edged the 1st round (even though it was close, with Ali landing those lead straight rights in the beginning and Foreman peppering Ali's body and elbows at the end of the round). George was prevailing in the 5th until Ali came back with those 1-2s and made it even. So, my score was 5-1-1 for Ali.

It wasn't even close on the scorecards, Foreman landed 3-4 clean punches per round on the face and chin, with Ali deflecting and evading most of punches thrown by Foreman. Even the most of punches that landed on Ali's head didn't cause much damage, because Ali pulled away slightly or rolled with them. The most success Foreman had was in the earlier rounds landing some good shots to the body.
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Old 06-11-2014, 01:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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Foreman would have knocked Ali out if he wasn't poisoned by Sadler. Sadler was in cahoots with Ali's team. Right after Foreman fired Sadler he went straight to work for Ali. When Foreman wanted a rematch Ali demanded that Sadler work his corner so he could poison him again.

I like Ali but he was very afraid of Foreman and resorted in underhand tactics to ensure a victory. Looses ropes, poison, bad hotel food...Ali did it all to screw Foreman out of his title.
I don't know about Sadler poisoning Foreman. That seems highly unlikely. I do know that everything broke Ali's way.

Foreman sustained a cut in training, and the fight had to be postponed. Foreman was a hated man in Zaire. I saw a documentary, even the local witch doctors did they thing to put the hex on him. While most fighters would ignore this type of stuff, mental focus was a problem for Foreman in his younger days. He was angry, and fought angry.

Other X factors that went Ali's way were loose ropes that allowed Ali to lean back and stay away from Foreman's shots, a steamy area, and perhaps a 10 count that was a little fast. Of course Foreman was the dope who punched himself out and likely underestimated Ali resolve to win.

I had it 5-2-1 for Ali at the time of the stoppage. If this was the only film on Foreman, many would doubt his skills. He looks poor. Not nearly as sharp as he was vs Frazier or Norton for sure.
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:17 PM   #19
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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If Foreman was so clearly ahead,explain why his face was getting quite swollen as early as the end of the fifth,and why Ali was virtually unmarked ?
The poison?
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Old 06-11-2014, 02:41 PM   #20
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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This thread is about who won rounds..not about who won the fight. Learn how to read. Apart from his offense Ali looked slow and mediorcre in the Manila fight. He lost the fight against Norton at Yankee stadium..it was one of the many gift decisions Ali got later in his career.

Also Tommy didn't beat George's ass..he ran away from him for 12 rounds.
I agree, Ali DID lose to Norton in the third fight and took the worst beating of his career which ruined him for all time. In addition, I have Ali losing to Jimmy Young as well, behind 2 rounds to 13 rounds. If Ali won any more than two or three rounds against Jimmy, you're going to have to show me how
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:20 PM   #21
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

All of them, if I recall. It's been a while since I watched the fight but it was pretty lopsided.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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All of them, if I recall. It's been a while since I watched the fight but it was pretty lopsided.
You gave Ali all the rounds or Foreman?
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:07 AM   #23
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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I agree, Ali DID lose to Norton in the third fight and took the worst beating of his career which ruined him for all time. In addition, I have Ali losing to Jimmy Young as well, behind 2 rounds to 13 rounds. If Ali won any more than two or three rounds against Jimmy, you're going to have to show me how
I agree with you 100%. The fights with norton, jimmy young and earnie shavers were all gift decisions. Would Muhammad Ali still be called the greatest if he lost twice to Norton, to jimmy young and earnie shavers? No. His popularity got him those decision not his actual ability in the ring.
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Old 06-12-2014, 03:25 AM   #24
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

Ali had one gift decision, fight #3, vs. Norton.

He was gifted vs. Young.

Shavers is debatable. He may well have won on the strngth of greater action at the end of rounds, & of course he nearly had Shavers out at the end,

He might still be called The Greatest. He was past peak, had the beginnings of Parkinson's after Manilla, was robbed of a continuation of his prime at least.

Who else fought so much quality & some ATG competition, & past his peak?
All Styles two, including excellent swarmers, hardest for boxer types, & someone who confounded him like Norton, 3 X even while faded significantly by the end of the trilogy.
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Old 06-12-2014, 04:26 AM   #25
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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the poison?
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Old 06-12-2014, 06:46 AM   #26
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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Ali had one gift decision, fight #3, vs. Norton.

He was gifted vs. Young.

Shavers is debatable. He may well have won on the strngth of greater action at the end of rounds, & of course he nearly had Shavers out at the end,

He might still be called The Greatest. He was past peak, had the beginnings of Parkinson's after Manilla, was robbed of a continuation of his prime at least.

Who else fought so much quality & some ATG competition, & past his peak?
All Styles two, including excellent swarmers, hardest for boxer types, & someone who confounded him like Norton, 3 X even while faded significantly by the end of the trilogy.
I remember watching Ali vs Shavers for the first time thinking it was an absolute robbery. Shavers gave ali a bad beating.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:01 AM   #27
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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Shavers is debatable. He may well have won on the strngth of greater action at the end of rounds, & of course he nearly had Shavers out at the end...
Ali had one of the best chins ever. Shavers hit him with plenty, including for the first 2 minutes of the final round. But Ali had Shavers out on his feet for the final 15 seconds and only the last bell saved him from going down.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:37 AM   #28
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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Ali did not have one of the best chins "ever" what the hell! Are you like a hundred years old or something. Ali got put down by guys about 180lbs did he not. He had a good chin later on, earlier he had pretty poor chin really.

As for Shavers he was on the slide a bit by then I wouldn't doubt but still he should not have struggled with that opponent.
Ali had an excellent chin and is widely respected for it. Even when he did go down he got up again.

Ali was only stopped the once in his 21 year career, and that was in his zombie-like performance against Holmes when he was nearly 40 and totally shot.

Shavers had just turned 32 when he fought Ali was knocking them out up until then and well beyond. He was a huge puncher as his career 68 KOs testify.
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Old 06-12-2014, 07:48 AM   #29
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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Yeah and how many really good boxer-punchers did Ali fight again? And how many good opponents full stop did Shaver's fight again leading up to Ali? Widely respected, you mean widely hyped for.

Rest my case...
You really need to take a look through Ali's record

And yes Shavers was a huge puncher
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:11 AM   #30
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Default Re: How many rounds did you give Foreman against Ali?

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You really need to take a look through Ali's record

And yes Shavers was a huge puncher
Shavers got Knocked out by Quarry in round 1. He wasn't a world beater. Good power but not a good boxer. Clay (his real family name he never legally changed) never fought skilled boxer-punchers, only swarmers and sluggers. Boxer-punchers like Joe Louis would have beaten the arrogant Louisville Lip to a bloody pulp. He would be outboxed like in the Norton fights except he would be eating really hard shots that would knock him out. Even a modern boxer puncher like Lennox Lewis would give Clay a bad beating and put him away.
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