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Old 06-07-2014, 03:33 AM   #61
Stevie G
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

Compare Ali's resume against any other ATG heavyweight champ's. He comes out of it pretty well.
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Old 06-07-2014, 04:42 AM   #62
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Originally Posted by Stevie G View Post
Compare Ali's resume against any other ATG heavyweight champ's. He comes out of it pretty well.
This is very true Stevie, but do you think that Norton should have got a rematch after Yankee Stadium?

I do.
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Old 06-07-2014, 05:41 AM   #63
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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This is very true Stevie, but do you think that Norton should have got a rematch after Yankee Stadium?

I do.

I agree with you,Fasthands. Muhammad should either have given Ken a rematch or retired after the Yankee Stadium bout.

As an out and out Ali fan,I wish he'd hung them up a year earlier.

Last edited by Stevie G; 06-07-2014 at 05:53 AM.
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:39 AM   #64
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

Holmes in 78. Ali skipped out on defending against the guy who was better than anyone else he fought in his career. And he knew it already from sparring with him.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:23 AM   #65
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Holmes in 78. Ali skipped out on defending against the guy who was better than anyone else he fought in his career. And he knew it already from sparring with him.

At that particular time,Muhammad no doubt realised that he was four years over the hill to have beaten Holmes (Zaire). Shame that this sense of reality deserted him in 1980.
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:39 PM   #66
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

The time and context for the Ali-Foreman rematch was an immediate one the spring of 1975. In this scenario I can picture Foreman still making the excuses he made after Zaire, but then whipping himself into shape and getting himself right (or at least telling the press that) for a huge Madison Square Garden rematch in May 1975.

As it turned out, Foreman stayed out of action during 1975 (Toronto excepted). Then in January 1976 he has a not-so-impressive, but very courageous, performance against Ron Lyle. It wasn't until June 1976 that he started getting busy, fighting Frazier-LeDoux-Denis-Agosto-Young, which was not a bad run of fights in the nine month period they took place.

Thing was, Ali spent that same June 76 through March 77 period prepping for and then recovering from Norton III. That was a huge fight at the time. There was tons of anticipation and build up. People really wanted to see that fight.

Post-Zaire Foreman was keeping himself in the public eye by appearing on TV shows like "Six Million Dollar Man" and "Sanford and Son". He just seemed to realize too late that he'd have to earn his way to a rematch by actually boxing. Once he did start boxing he ended up losing to Young and retiring.

A rematch simply wasn't in the cards.
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:19 PM   #67
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Really? That's your pass for a natural and desirable, easily makeable rematch not occurring?

I seem to remember some Sports Illustrated cover with Foreman on it saying he wants Ali again or something like that.

Just saying, that's the fight he should have made that comes to everyones mind he "missed" (even though he fought him already of course).
Yes, "It just wasn't in the cards" is my pass. That's what happened. We can't change it. Ali-Foreman II SHOULD have happened in the Spring of '75. It was marketable and would've been part a long tradition of heavyweight championship rematches; many of which were far less desirable than Ali-Foreman II. It was certainly a "missed" fight.

I don't know whose fault it was that there wasn't an immediate rematch in the first half of 1975. But after that window closed, George only made a serious case for a rematch when Ali was otherwise occupied. That SI story was December 1975. Foreman then proceeded to have a life-and-death struggle with Ron Lyle, wait 6 more months, and then finally get back on track for a 9-month run.

If Ali had fought Foreman instead of Norton in Yankee Stadium in September 76, people would've called Ali out for avoiding a rubber match with Norton. And I'd bet that Ali-Norton III was signed before Foreman really got back on the winning track in June.

One might say that in an ideal world champions would only fight top 5 contenders and not take easy defenses. But then where would the fun of a major upset come from?
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:08 PM   #68
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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Yes, "It just wasn't in the cards" is my pass. That's what happened. We can't change it. Ali-Foreman II SHOULD have happened in the Spring of '75. It was marketable and would've been part a long tradition of heavyweight championship rematches; many of which were far less desirable than Ali-Foreman II. It was certainly a "missed" fight.

I don't know whose fault it was that there wasn't an immediate rematch in the first half of 1975. But after that window closed, George only made a serious case for a rematch when Ali was otherwise occupied. That SI story was December 1975. Foreman then proceeded to have a life-and-death struggle with Ron Lyle, wait 6 more months, and then finally get back on track for a 9-month run.

If Ali had fought Foreman instead of Norton in Yankee Stadium in September 76, people would've called Ali out for avoiding a rubber match with Norton. And I'd bet that Ali-Norton III was signed before Foreman really got back on the winning track in June.

One might say that in an ideal world champions would only fight top 5 contenders and not take easy defenses. But then where would the fun of a major upset come from?

Good point about the Ali-Foreman scenario at Yankee Stadium. Ali would have got criticised for taking the 'softer option' as he'd beaten Foreman far easier than he did Norton.
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Old 06-09-2014, 12:18 PM   #69
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

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George would have KO'd him like a locomotive vs. a Geo Metro.
This is a common mistake. Ali's success against Foreman was in large part due to the fact that he was pretty much the only guy George fought (in either reign) who was as big as he was. George just wasn't able to walk through him.

Ali wanted to fight Foreman again, he actually didn't have any interest in facing Norton a third time, he reportedly asked Foreman if he could "just go take care of Norton again" and then Foreman and Ali would have a rematch.
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Old 06-10-2014, 12:39 PM   #70
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

Funny story though, the guy that Angelo Dundee said that Ali was hesitant to fight in the 70's was...DUANE BOBBICK!

Ali saw him chase Larry Holmes out of the ring in the US Amateur Championships and Larry was already giving Ali a rough go in camp. They had a contract signed before the Norton fight and for some reason the fight didn't happen, but at the time Duane was 38-0 with 32kos, and he was massive for a 70's heavyweight at 6-4 240 with an 82 inch reach.

Bobbick was also trained by Eddie Futch and managed by Joe Frazier (not a missprint) and the rumor was Ali really didn't want him.

Of course after the Norton fight, it was all academic.
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:11 PM   #71
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

Eddie Machen!
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:35 PM   #72
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

Indeed, Eddie Machen.
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:30 PM   #73
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Default Re: Who should Ali have fought but didn't?

The Vietcong
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