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Old 04-28-2008, 05:05 PM   #76
ironchamp
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Default Re: Larry Holmes was in his prime when Tyson beat him(Read the post first)

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I think he means (by 'elite'), a top fighter at the time, am i right? I just didnt think there was much to disagree with me on, i wasnt disrespecting any1, i was asked what i thought an 'elite' fighter was/is, i give my own personal explanation and then stated he has never beatn an elite fighter
I meant at the time he fought them.

At the time Tyson fought Thomas it was arguable that Pinklon Thomas was the 2-3 best HW in the world.

Pinklon Thomas, while not a titlist, was considered one of the division's elite with wins over Weaver and Witherspoon. He had a dismal performance against Berbick but was still considered a top fighter. Remember Pinklon Thomas at one point was a top 10 p4p fighter in the mid to late 80s. For a HW that is quite a feat, considering the fact that p4p lists are usually dominated by lower weight classes.

At the time he fought Ruddock, Ruddock was the #3 HW in the world after Tyson and Holyfield. And after the Tyson fights, Ruddock was expected by many to be one of the division's elite. Many expected him to beat Lennox as well as Evander Holyfield if that's not elite I dont what is.

Micheal Spinks was about as credible as they come. He had beaten the longstanding HW champion twice. And if you disregard his victories because you felt Larry was shafted, the one thing you cannot disregard is that Michael, based on his performances, belonged in the ring with the HW champion.

He may have been a LHW but:

So was Gene Tunney, and he beat Jack Dempsey twice.

So was Billy Conn and Joe Louis needed a little more than 91 seconds to get the job done.

So was Ezzard Charles and he twice bested Joe Louis, and also gave a prime Marciano two tough fights.

So was Micheal Moorer and he beat Evander Holyfield in his prime.

So the notion that Spinks being a former LHW should somehow diminish Tyson's win is really nonsense. Too emphasis is put on beating a Big And Powerful Goliath; while beating the small, slick and cagey David is virtually ignored.
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Old 04-28-2008, 05:29 PM   #77
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Default Re: Larry Holmes was in his prime when Tyson beat him(Read the post first)

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Originally Posted by ironchamp
I meant at the time he fought them.

At the time Tyson fought Thomas it was arguable that Pinklon Thomas was the 2-3 best HW in the world.

Pinklon Thomas, while not a titlist, was considered one of the division's elite with wins over Weaver and Witherspoon. He had a dismal performance against Berbick but was still considered a top fighter. Remember Pinklon Thomas at one point was a top 10 p4p fighter in the mid to late 80s. For a HW that is quite a feat, considering the fact that p4p lists are usually dominated by lower weight classes.

At the time he fought Ruddock, Ruddock was the #3 HW in the world after Tyson and Holyfield. And after the Tyson fights, Ruddock was expected by many to be one of the division's elite. Many expected him to beat Lennox as well as Evander Holyfield if that's not elite I dont what is.

Micheal Spinks was about as credible as they come. He had beaten the longstanding HW champion twice. And if you disregard his victories because you felt Larry was shafted, the one thing you cannot disregard is that Michael, based on his performances, belonged in the ring with the HW champion.

He may have been a LHW but:

So was Gene Tunney, and he beat Jack Dempsey twice.

So was Billy Conn and Joe Louis needed a little more than 91 seconds to get the job done.

So was Ezzard Charles and he twice bested Joe Louis, and also gave a prime Marciano two tough fights.

So was Micheal Moorer and he beat Evander Holyfield in his prime.

So the notion that Spinks being a former LHW should somehow diminish Tyson's win is really nonsense. Too emphasis is put on beating a Big And Powerful Goliath; while beating the small, slick and cagey David is virtually ignored.
Its alright Ironchamp, we just use the word 'elite' in a different context. Like i said though, i did explain my usage of the word prior to you debating my point. But yes, Thomas was a top win as i have agreed on already. It was just that i use the word 'elite' when describing a division's finest fighters/achievers in its entire history.

I never disagreed with you on Spinks, and while i do agree with you that he deserved to be in the ring with Tyson (Spinks was the linear champ), and it was an outstanding wiin for Tyson, Spinks was not an 'elite' HW (in the context that I use the word), although he was one of the very best 175 pounders and p4p fighters of all-time.

I dont really think we have disagreed on much, just a mis-understanding in the context of which we use some words and terms in conjunction with boxing history and achievements in the sport!
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Old 04-28-2008, 05:34 PM   #78
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Default Re: Larry Holmes was in his prime when Tyson beat him(Read the post first)

I guess what I meant by elite is the tier 1 fighters of the divison at the time not necessarily of all time.
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Old 04-28-2008, 05:53 PM   #79
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Default Re: Larry Holmes was in his prime when Tyson beat him(Read the post first)

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I guess what I meant by elite is the tier 1 fighters of the divison at the time not necessarily of all time.
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